30 Bananas a Day!

All these "omg calories" "omg weight gain" "omg hypothetical situations" discussions are HORRIBLE. just horrible.

I went HCRV because I truly believed that it would heal my body from the damage I did to it, and the damage that the early years of eating SAD and not being all too active did.  I believe that HCRV is not only the healthiest way for people to live, but that it is the kindest to the planet.  I understand the fear of gaining weight, but this is supposed to be a forum that promotes HEALTH of body, mind, and spirit- not pleasing aesthetics.  I take it personally when people say this is a "diet that isn't working" because they're misunderstanding completely what it is.  It's a lifestyle based on compassion and awareness, from which you will happen to reap countless benefits- It is not just a band-aid for your belly.

One of the things that attracted me to 30BAD was the LACK of people complaining about every little dip and curve, every 2lb/1kg difference in their weight, etc.  I find it alienating when every discussion is someone freaking out over a MINOR weight gain, or asking a hypothetical question for the sake of proving a moot point.  It's juvenile.  I know I haven't been a member long, but in the short time I have been here it seems like the site has been overrun by fad-dieters and people who understand NOTHING about nutrition, and aren't willing to listen to those with years of solid experience.  Jeepers.  I would really like to see more worthwhile discussions from the centered&balanced members of 30BAD.  I will start one myself later.  Cheers, truly fruity people!

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Comment by Calypso on April 18, 2012 at 4:17pm

LOVE this post!

Comment by Francesca on April 18, 2012 at 4:11pm

Many people don't understand a few things, which those of us who have recovered from SEVERE EATING DISORDERS have had to learn the HARD WAY:

1) Diets cause eating disorders, depression, body-image distortion, a body that is alarmed by percieved starvation, a body that reacts to starvation (and will for a looooong time), mental ANGUISH, insatiability, cravings; inability to stop eating when you start (binging), constant thoughts about food and weight-loss, crappy emotions; ADDICTION TO DIETING because every time you stop the diet you gain weight again, and even more than before you started; DAMAGE TO THE BODY overall, to your organs, your brain, your immune system, you METABOLISM.

2) When you begin to eat again, your body starts REPAIRING ITSELF. It may take YEARS. Let it heal. 

3)When you focus on self-love, self-healing, self-nourishment, and self-care your body will effortlessly balance. Nature knows balance like nothing else. Weight stabilizes unintentionally.

4)Whatever you focus on becomes who you are, because it is becomes the lens through which you percieve. If you focus on weight, every aspect of your life will become tied to that. I'm not surprised that people who are focusing on weight loss (and therefore fueling that fire of disordered thinking, causing themselves anxiety, pain, self-loathing, frustration, tiredness, etc) are the ones gaining lots of weight and having painful bloating.

When I started eating and digesting again, after years of eating and throwing up, I had the most SEVERE DIGESTIVE PAIN I HAVE EVER HAD IN MY WHOLE LIFE. I was once hospitalized because of the pain. I had to use baby colic!!! It took a year for my digestion to recover, and even so, it has really come full strength because of this diet. You know what I did when I had this pain? When my "bloated belly" made me look "5 months pregnant" (as so many people here LOVE TO DESCRIBE THEMSELVES)? I just cried and lay there. I knew there was no other choice. What else was there? Stop eating? Obviously not. Throw up some more and relieve myself? Obviously not. I took my body's cues and said, "You know best, I trust you." I lay there. I took it easy. I slept a lot. I gained water weight. I looked puffy. I kept loving myself. And, well, HELL, it's all over. WOW, what a concept? I didn't bitch to other people because I had no one to talk to. No one in my life knew that I was bulimic or that I was recovering. I shut up and learned to realize the connection between letting go of the idea of body-slavery and weight and control, and total body stabilization.

Thank you so much AJ, for this post. The recent threads that have been started on this site are only encouraging disordered thoughts of eating and this lifestyle, which will only exacerbate people's problems with the diet. I see them as misguided and short-sighted. We need positive posts. And I agree with you. Plenty of well-meaning advice is given, yet people clearly do not take initiative to research for themselves and make their own decisions. Why should these posts dominate our site?

Comment by DesertFox on April 18, 2012 at 3:14pm

Comment by AJ on April 18, 2012 at 2:20pm

Lolita- Thanks for the support, I'm glad you can relate.  Always good to find people on the same page.

Onewordspoken- Yes!  Thank you!  Your attitude is exactly the kind I love to encounter on this website, I find it so motivating.  Also jeepers is one of my favorite terms.  I've been trying lately to get my points across sans expletives ;)

Jon- Borrow away!  I am nothing short of honored =]  I truly love this lifestyle and what it does for the planet and the people who live it.  I love how you put it- "811 is a holistic lifestyle.  It's the way we live and the way we look at ourselves and the world, not just the way we eat :)"  It's so true.

Comment by Lolita on April 18, 2012 at 10:58am

Ditto - it's annoying when I see post after post of them. Maybe these people could start their own group discussion, or at least try a few searches before posting yet again "OMG I'm fat I can't lose weight what do I do the world is ending". Seriously? Are you exercising? Eating ripe fruit all the time? Sleeping? Drinking water? Off the droogs? Because I've seen some people's posts include "oh by the way I still smoke/drink" or "I don't have time to exercise but I can't figure out why I'm not skinny" etc. Please - it is juvenile. Or it's lacking major personal accountability :-/

Thanks for posting.

Comment by AJ on April 18, 2012 at 9:17am

Adam- Did you click the link I included in my response to you?  Your response seems to indicate that you did not.  I know first-hand how difficult it is to reprogram your thinking, especially when an eating disorder is involved.  I'm not afraid of something within myself that I don't understand- I am speaking from a place of understanding, which I gained through a lot of self-assessment, assessment of others with similar issues I have encountered, and HARD WORK.  I will assume that you've never had an eating disorder- please correct me if I'm wrong.  A lot of it is out of your control, but a lot of it is IN your control.  There are a lot of dark, nasty aspects of the thought process of someone with an ED, but the truth is it's something a person hides behind.  If it wasn't, there wouldn't be that feeling of "losing something" when you recover.  You have to actually want to recover before you can do so, and to me, a lot of the language used and comments made in the discussions I'm referring to indicates, from my experience and what I've seen of others' experiences, that some of these people might not be willing to let go of their disordered thoughts yet.  And know what?  That's detrimental to the people who are putting in hard work and effort to overcome an ED.  This isn't a thinspo site.  I know I don't have to click on the links, but they're there and I can see them and everyone else trying to make progress can, too, and it sucks!  Straight up, no attempt at eloquent articulation- It freakin sucks.  I am not trying to judge these people, only analyze, and these are the things I perceive.  I don't think that anything I said in this blog was unfair, and I stand by it.  I do maintain that I appreciate your views, especially the time you must put into your responses.  It helps to keep everything balanced, so thank you for that.

Comment by AJ on April 18, 2012 at 8:00am

Thanks so much, Jessie, that's exactly how I feel =]

In all the research I did when first starting out HCRV, never once do I remember seeing 811 being marketed as a diet.  I always saw it advertised as a lifestyle change, a result of which is weight loss over time, which will be permanent if the lifestyle is upheld.  It's for people who take health, fitness, and nutrition VERY seriously, to the extent where they want to have those things incorporated into their daily routine and mindset (in a healthy and non-obsessive way).  It's not for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with that- But if it's not compatible with a person's routine or mindset and they don't want to make it so, I don't think it's fair to blame the lifestyle.

Comment by Adam on April 18, 2012 at 7:58am

- Peter. I also forgot to respond to your final paragraph, where you ask some great questions. I think these are important factors to consider, and it may even be worth forming a new group to specifically focus on how to most efficiently improve the ways that people assimilate their information and adopt proactive approaches from day 1.

Take care

Adam x

Comment by Adam on April 18, 2012 at 7:57am

Hey

AJ - I am glad that you appreciate my efforts to approach things from a logical and objective apporach as much as possible. I agree that it is not optimal for people to focus exclusively on one factor as the main focus of their goals. But it is important to also understand that whilst we are conditioned to believe things such as that we are intelligent, rational, creative thinkers, with free-will, the reality is that so much of this depends on learning how to develop these aspects of our brain, and most importantly, learning how to marry these thinking skills in with emotional literay and emotional containment.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where most people are conditioned from a very early age, often pre-cognitive awareness, that part of adulthood and gender roles, is to be overly fixated on beauty, being found attractive, and having everyone love you. We are not educated with a literacy of what our different emotional and physical needs are, how to use or develop our innate emotional and cognitive thinking skills. And we are actively conditioned to develop insecurities and accept certain solutions or focused channels for these insecurities as part of adulthood.

Whilever we are unable to manage strong emotions and conditioned responses, we pretty much end up being a lot more like robots. Our thinking patterns become automated and looped, in a sort of simulation of intelligent thinking, rather than actual engagement of the brain. This applies in a wide variety of contexts and is the general source of most poor problem-solving, conflict, addictions, emotional over-reactivity, affective and psychological disorders.

Learning to over come these, to become more conscious and to realise that there is more to life and to the brain than one specific focal point, can really take time. It is often a cycling process, with slow, gradual unfolding of conscious awareness.

I also think it is important to remember that humans are slow learners in general. If one unfortunate thing that animal studies have shown us in psychology over the last 60 years, it is that many animals  learn from their mistakes a lot faster than we do. And some people learn much slower than others. Generally, the more anxious someone is, or the more of a kinaesthetic learner someone is (learning by doing) the slower they are likely to learn something.

I think that it is really important to try to understand, rather than judge behaviours. There is always a reason behind something. If I ever find myself feeling anything but curiosity or compassion towards someone who is struggling with a problem, I try to remember to take a step back and remember that some of my anxiety or internal struggle is associated with a missing piece of the jigsaw, a misunderstanding or only partial understanding of what someone is experiencing. The more I understand, the more empathy and patience becomes a natural response that I don't even have to attempt to experience.

One of the things I sometimes experience as well is that when someone does something that evokes a strong negative emotion (especially anger) in me, it is often related to some sort of pattern of behaviour that I don't understand within myself, or that I am struggling to overcome myself, and feel frustrated with myself (consciously or unconscious) about. The content might look different (although sometimes it might be similar), but the pattern underneath may be similar. It sounds like perhaps your own previous experiences with ED is influencing your reactions to the posts that some people make. This is completely understandable and natural.

One of the sayings of Harleys is that "Disagreement/resistance is just a request for more information" (I am paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact words).

I often try to keep this in mind with people. If people come here with questions, doubts, anxieties or concerns (completely natural, given the fact that this website challlenges not only a lifetimes worth of conditioning, but generations worth of it). Even when people think they are over it, or want to be over it, waves of anxiety or doubt can still come up. And it is at times like those, that we need to reach out to people and offer a reassuring hand, to let them know that it will be ok, in a way that accounts for what they are experiencing, and still educates them in the process.

For sure, it is peoples responsibility to learn, to assimilate information, to investigate, to read etc. But the reality if people were that good at problem-solving, they probably wouldn't be having they issues and concerns they are in the first place. It is important to understand how people create problems for themselves, and where the gaps in their motivational strategies lie. If you have solutions for them (eg. try reading about X on the forum to review what has already been discussed), then offer these up in a supportive way. It is a good suggestion. Help people to develop better problem-solving skills.This way you can both feel better about the situation.

- Peter, I understand your point about the message we are putting across on the forum. And for sure, some people will be attracted and repelled by certain things on forums. I think it is important to remember however that this isn't a website full of 10,500 successful, thriving long term lfrv's. It is largely a website of people who are new to the concepts, are curious about it, or still in the trying to make it work stage. People come here for support. If everyone was already doing it perfectly, then this wouldn't be a community support forum. It would just be a purely social networking/catwalk/success story portfolio website. This isn't someones website though. This is a community support forum set up by people who want to help others to learn more about the lifestyle and how to make it work to enable people to achieve their long term health and dietary goals.

I think you will always win some and lose some. If people are repelled by some questions about weight/calories etc when they check out the site for the first time, then this probably isn't the right forum for them anyway. Most people are here to learn, to share their struggles and successes, and to offer mutual support, education and advice. It is about mutual learning and development.

If you are concerned about the image that the website puts across, then consider starting up your own website or youtube page dedicated to success stories etc. Or direct people to sites of other peoples who are already doing this. There are lots of ways for people to learn about the diet besides this forum. But forums are about community contact. And it is unrealistic to expect that people will find out about the diet, come to the forum, stick to it 100% and never have any questions, concerns, struggles or problems. A lovely ideal, and maybe in the future there will be more people in the world who can do that, but most people will simply struggle.

For the most part, I am against censorship on community support forums that discourage people from discussing concerns, questions or problems for two reasons: Firstly, that it denies someone the opportunity to learn, as well as the whole community. Discussions, even when controversial, encourage people to think reflexively and reflectively, which is important. The world isn't in the mess that it is now because of diet or anything else. It is because people do not know how to use their brain efficiently enough. Any real sustainable solution to social change has to enable people to develop their thinking skills. And secondly, because it encourages people to struggle in secret, to feel ashamed of not being able to do the diet perfectly enough, and encourages disordered eating, which this website is against. I think it is counter productive and people will either give up, or struggle to succeed for a long time.

Take care

Adam x

Comment by Jessie James on April 18, 2012 at 7:23am

Great post! It's good to be reminded of this fact. I tell my friends (of course the first thing they ask me is about losing weight) that's it more about healing the body and eating in a way that respects the people, the planet, and animals. 

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