30 Bananas a Day!

I sometimes say that I dislike books. A lot of books tend to sell you an idea much like any sales man sells a product. “You need this madame”. Inserts a few logical sounding reasons why this is the best for them and everyone and why every other company is selling something worse that will not be any good for them. Because they have these reasons they're absolutely sure of themselves 100%. That's a rather big claim don't you think? To be so closed minded I don't find very scientific. To be fair a lot of authors aren't like this and will find potential flaws in their arguments even when they are very convinced of their theories. I appreciate this in an author. I don't believe 811ers do this very often. So I want to provide (what I hope is)an educated critic of the 80/10/10 diets beliefs.

For starters. I think 80/10/10 or Fruitarian is a great diet which will work great for probably everyone, but who knows? There might be that 1% that needs the diet adjusted a little. We're not all perfect sadly. My criticism is more about how the diet is promoted and how other diets are bashed than the diet itself.

Some claim that this diet is in our genes. That's it's our natural diet and that we once ate this way and should return to it. Back 2.5 million years ago we were likely Fruitarians yes. Back when we were chimpanzee like. There is some argument that homo erectus could have been Fruitarian but I could argue against this. For now I'll just say it's irrelevant. We are not Chimpanzees, Australopethicines or Homo Erectus. We are homo sapiens. Furthermore, that point is rather irrelevant since the kind of fruit we likely ate was much similar to the kind of fruit you would find in the wild today. Quite different. It's tough (harder to digest)and bitter. The kind of fruit we eat today is domesticated. There is even good argument for how cooking made us evolve into what we are today. This doesn't go against 811. It just means the decrease in % calories used digesting could be spent elsewhere. Raw fruit has the same qualities. Probably why we cultivated it.

Some claim raw food is easier to digest. Not many fruitarians tend to focus on this or use it at all to be fair. I'll run over it nevertheless in case someone is still sticking by it. Raw fruit is indeed easier to digest than cooked grain, meat or legumes. I don't think cooking would help fruit be digested much easier so it would be pointless. The process of cooking breaks foods down making them easier to digest not harder. It's why our ancestors started doing it and became evolved like I was talking about earlier. Raw meat is not easier to digest than cooked. Neither are raw beans or grains any easier to digest than cooked. All of these things are harder to digest in their raw form and it has been proven. Even if the so called enzymes aid your digestion, it doesn't mean they're making food easier to digest than it would be if it were cooked.

Some say “the body runs on glucose”. Why are we eating so much fructose then? Half (often  more)of fruit is fructose and from what I can see it doesn't not convert to glucose. Also, the body runs on more things than this even if you are Fruitarian. How do you think you lose excess fat? You burn it. You burn it as fatty acids alongside glucose and/or fructose. The less intense you exercise, the bigger percentage of fat you will burn. More intense activity requires more glycogen.

Some will talk about how other animals eat raw food, so we should, and that the only appealing raw food is fruit. Well I agree with the second point but not the first. It sounds logical but where's the proof? You can't just jump to the conclusion that something is bad just because we're the only ones doing it. I don't see the sense in that.

Some people will quote some scientific paper they've probably never seen but heard of. Indeed paper is the word because it's apparently so old there's no computer record of it at this time. The paper talks about how when certain foods are cooked they create a white blood cell increase like when you have an infection, have heavily exercised or are pregnant. It's termed Digestive Leukocytosis. Firstly this is just a response and not a long term effect. A healthy response. Our white blood cells obviously don't kill all that much in our food or the world would not be very populated. Do you think intense exercise is bad? If foods other than fruits and vegetables were consumed raw (likely)and didn't create that response (in the experiments)then does it really tell us a great deal about how toxic a food is? As much as this study suggests that cooked food isn't perfect, I don't think this is a great study to use in arguments for eating raw food. You can't even show it to people. They have to take your word for it.

Denatured protein. What does this mean? Does it mean the protein is not usable? I don't think so. Ever seen a protein deficient cooked foodist? Your body can still use the amino acids but the proteins lose one or perhaps two of their structures and therefore their functions. What kind of functions? Are they beneficial to health? I'm not too sure. Bit complicated for me. Perhaps these functional proteins are the enzymes raw foodists talk about but what do they do? Some say that denaturing anything is bad because nature is good. Is nature really good? Death is natural. Poison berries are natural. What about all those natural disasters? Nature is nature. It's neither good or bad.

I want to know. What condition does eating cooked food cause? This has to apply to fruit too. I really dislike the term “raw vegan”. More the raw part. Fruitarians aren't just raw vegans. They eat mostly fruit and veg. They should probably call themselves Fruitarians instead of associating themselves with other not so healthy raw vegans. This isn't about raw food. It's about fruit. There is nothing that great about raw food in general. Fruitarians should talk about how hydrating fruit is, how it gives you everything you need, that it's easy to digest and tastes good. People may not be so sure that it gives you everything you need at first but they'll likely see your other points. Talking this way doesn't make you sound like you're in some cult or anything. It's scientific. I'm afraid there aren't any cultures you can refer to or scientific papers that back up the diet as a whole. Neither is there much of an evolutionary argument. We learnt a lot of our knowledge from doctors studying low fat starch diets. Are they really that bad? Do you really get that many more benefits from eating a fruit diet than a starch one? If so, what are they? In my experience I do think an all fruit diet is better, but I have nothing much to go by other than it's easier on digestion and is more hydrating than a starch diet like the Mcdougall diet. People have cured cancer, reversed heart disease and diabetes on starch diets. I really don't think they can be that bad. In Asia people live to great ages on diets comprised of mostly starch. Like Harley puts it, “results over theory”. I know this is a Fruitarian site but freaking out about cooked starch is a bit overboard. Starch is good, fruit is better.

Again I fully support the 80/10/10 diet. I think it's great because of the many reasons low fat vegan (starch)diets are healthy and a few more. I just don't think it is promoted in quite the right way. I'm open to criticism on this. I'm not saying I'm 100% certain on all this. Please show that kind of open mindedness back.








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Comment by Ktrü on February 22, 2014 at 6:15pm

Here's a great article on wild fruits, which compares them to common varieties available in stores today: http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/

Comment by Bart M on March 15, 2012 at 11:24am
I enjoyed reading this, Liam.
Personally, I prefer the term ''frugivore" over fruitarian or raw foodist.
Comment by Liam G on March 11, 2012 at 6:36pm

Thanks Leevonne

Well, I don't think many people here are actually impying that raw beans or meat are anywhere near as good as fruit and veg but the implication that kind of comes across is that anything raw is better than anything cooked. I'd much rather see someone following the mcdougall, barnard or esselstyn type diet than David Wolfes sun food diet or similar. I think the macronutrient ratio is much more important than the raw factor which is why I don't mind the term 80/10/10. I don't think it's perfect though. Fruitarian may not be perfect either, nothing is, but it's a clear description of the diet. Very little explanation is need. "So you just eat fruit?". "Yes mostly, sometimes vegetables, nuts and seeds". Some might connect it to spiritualists yes but I think that applies just as much to the term raw vegan, as most of the more well known raw vegan gurus are rather spiritual type people.

Yeah nature's one cool thing :)

Comment by Jeffrey Murphy on March 11, 2012 at 9:40am

Fructose and glucose are isomers and the body can convert between them.  ATP which transports energy to your cells is produced by redox.  Check out stuff about the Krebs Cycle.  Basically it uses simple sugars like fructose and glucose.  I hoped I didn't imply that ALL fructose is converted or that it must be converted to glucose first, but that's basically how you get your energy.   Help me understand this also, I'm no expert in biochemistry.

I hoped also to not imply that eating raw meat or beans is good for humans.  In my opinion, it isn't.  Nor would I imply that protein deficiency has anything to do with cooking food. 

You're exactly right about disease, cooking food is only a factor that contributes to disease. 

Something about the yin/yang or symbiotic relationship of plants and humans just occurred to me.  I love this!  PLANTS MAKE SUGAR AND OXYGEN WHILE HUMANS USE THAT SUGAR AND OXYGEN TO MAKE CO2 AND WATER!  How convenient!  Of course this is a bit simple because there are other components involved.

Comment by Liam G on March 9, 2012 at 5:28pm

It was a while back when I was reading about fructose digestion. I read a lot of things but can't quite find them now. It wasn't too clear whether or not fructose converts to glucose but from what I can see now, fructose doesn't technically convert to glucose but basically yes it can. I don't think it always does though. I read somewhere that whatever fructose converts to doesn't require insulin to enter cells. I can't remember where I read that either but I'm pretty confident these things were well referenced. I don't want to argue about it or anything. It's not that important. Even if fructose always converts to glucose, your body still uses fatty acids for energy so you can't say the body runs on glucose so simply.

Comment by Liam G on March 9, 2012 at 4:36pm

I like fruit. I shall mostly likely be 100% fruitarian someday. I don't really have a problem with the diet and probably no-one will. I'm just addressing arguments people use that I don't think are entirely accurate or helpful to the movement. If someone doesn't care about spreading the message in the right way or spreading the message at all, that's fine, but if they do then I think they should look into some of the things I'm saying that's all. Again, they don't have to. They can take it or leave it.

@Jeffrey. I think your so called wild fruit isn't in fact wild at all. Try an isolated jungle or forest. Learnt it through this book. Our digestive systems have changed. We can't digest as much fibre as other primates can or derive much energy from it like they do. Our digestive system is pretty well suited to todays fruits :).

Yes of course you can be protein defficient if you're calorie defficient but it has nothing to do with cooked food.

Yes humans have the most disease but there's a bit more to it than "we cook our food". You're kind of implying that raw meat or beans will solve our problems. They are raw afterall. We also process our food in all sorts of weird and "wonderful" ways. You can look at two countries who both consume the same amount of cooked food yet have different levels of disease. So can the raw factor be really that important? I think it's only a part of the solution.

Where did you learn that fructose converts to glucose? Can you show me please?

I'm not worried about being judged :)

@Rick. I'll check out that video thanks.

@Leevonne and Greenmama. Thank you for your comments

Comment by Greenmama on March 9, 2012 at 1:25pm

If people give this thing a real TRY for some months, and then go back, their senses will tell them right away.  I did that!  I did the lifestyle 100% for 4 months, then I went back to eating a SAD vegetarian diet.  For the first day everything I tried tasted awful!  Anything with salt tasted downright toxic.  I immediately noticed brain fog, lethargy, stomach ache (the first day I vomitted and had diarrhea).  My tongue swelled and felt numb.  My sense of smell diminished and I had dry mouth and bad taste in my mouth on awakening.  The soreness I used to feel every day in my joints came back.

O.k., so you're not advocating a diet with dairy and some of the other crap I was eating.  I get it.  But I do notice so many tiny differences, even between a cleaner vegan diet and a 100% raw diet.  I can eat plain potatoes and I notice a nasty starch coating on my teeth and a bit of dehydration.  And, potatoes taste downright bland compared to some delicious fruit.  So then I start adding toxic condiments. I have had 6 years of experimenting with the back and forth, and I am personally convinced that it's worth it to go 100%.  I don't really give a hoot about the studies and the history anymore (although I did when I started) because I think you can just get too left-brain crazy to the point where you can never know anything.  Ever notice that at the end of every study it says, "Further research needed."  Or that studies contradict.  Or that tons of people are always trying to debunk the studies they don't agree with.  Studies can be useful, but not usually for people who are stuck in a mindset of fear.  Fearful people will get overwhelmed and confused, and will then revert to the crappy life they know rather than trying something new.  That's not me anymore.  I go with my senses and my gut.  

If you don't want to do a 100% raw diet and feel good on starch, then great, eat a low fat cooked vegan diet.  No one here is going to demonize you!  

Finally, the problem with the label fruitarian is that there are people who called dibs on that name first, and they do not eat leaves or seeds.  They have a "spiritual" belief that eating only the fruits is a higher form of nonviolence.  Some people who are arguing that the LFRV diet has scientific merit (and believe that greens are healthful and necessary) prefer the term frugivore.  Scientifically accurate, but unfortunately most people on the street don't know what that word means.

Comment by Jeffrey Murphy on March 9, 2012 at 10:49am


Hey bro, noone claims to know it all, and if they did, they'd probably be filthy rich,  end up dead or go crazy.  Don't take our word for it, try it yourself.  If you don't like how you feel, try something else.  Variety is the spice of life.  You can find flaws in pretty much every argument, cept maybe math.  Math is pretty much bulletproof.

Not everyone will eat the same exact thing.  That's why we have such a diverse source of nutrition from so many different fruits that grow all over the planet.  Don't go to Antarctica though, you probably won't find much for you there.  If you are part of that one percent, then by all means, adjust your diet.  Those who promote this diet feel very strongly about it and that is how most logical people will do it.  They are passionate about it and they want you to be a part of their wonderful experience.

Don't think for a second, that those previous forms of homo whatever suddenly changed their digestive tracts to be able to efficiently digest something other than fruits.  If the earth is something like four and a half billion years old, things don't just change overnight.  If you believe that wild fruits tasted like crap, then you're definitely mistaken.   Just take a few trips to some tropical regions and you'll find more wild fruit that is tasty beyond your imagination.  The symbiotic relationship of all natural things does not promote the propagation of crappy tasting fruit, weak traits or anything else detrimental to the survival of the species.   Our rational minds have pretty much $#@!ed things up since we've been able to manipulate our environment. 

We cook food because it enhances the flavor.  The problem with that is that cooking food destroys much of the nutritional value.  Fire destroys living organisms.  I'm sure you wouldn't be very usefull if you were barbecued.

Wild animals are pretty darn good at surviving. They eat raw food.  Once again, our rational minds screw things up.   Humans have the greatest instance of disease of any species of animal.  Many people believe that cooking food destroys nutrients and this is a huge factor in degenerative diseases.  We also probably cooked food because some folks experienced death from eating old, moldy, bacteria laden, diseased food.  Cooking helps to sterilize the food.  Therefore, many believe that raw food is better.  These aren't the only reasons, but they are what comes to my mind.

Fructose pretty much has the same formula as glucose and is most likely processed in a similar matter.  Fructose is metabolized in the liver before it is converted to glucose.  This may be why fructose has the lowest glycemic index of any sugar.

If someone quotes a scientific study, demand written proof from a credible source.  If you don't get it, then you do the research and decide for yourself.

Denatured protein is pretty much chemically changed or cooked protein, usually irreversible.  This typically renders it biologically toxic or taxing on the human body.  I've seen quite a few protein deficient people, usually alcoholics, diabetics, or people with eating disorders.  They lack protein from starvation and their body cannibalizes on their own muscle tissue.  I'd call that protein deficient.

You're absolutely right, starch is a source of nutrition, and fruit is better.  Who in their right minds wouldn't make the better choice?  Oh that's right, us tricksy humansees with our rational minds. 


Don't worry so much about labels and being judged about them.  We all just try to use the most efficent way to communicate or thoughts and beliefs.  I'm sure some day we'll come up with an even better label to describe our diet or lifestyle.  Until then, raw vegan hits the nail pretty much square on the head.

If you don't like something, don't do it.  If you don't believe something, find out for yourself.  That's the beauty of

Comment by rick on March 9, 2012 at 10:18am

the video "food matters" shows research that indicates that if a meal in the stomache consists of 51% or more cooked food it triggers a response in the immune and digestive systems to treat all the food in that meal as toxins to some degree.  i also agree with you that eating a starch and vegatable diet is benificial to humans(or least does no real harm and allows a persons immune system to work unimpeded) but like you said fruit is ideal.


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