30 Bananas a Day!

WHO IS NOT LOSING/GAINING WEIGHT HERE? Doug Graham's answers:

I too have been a grumblie about the lack of results on the diet.  I have neither gained nor lost weight, but at 35%+ fat percentile, exact same height and similar build to Freelee, I need and want to!

So I read Dr Graham's book again after 3 years.  Reading it is something we agree to in joining as a member...remember?  Most of it I am well versed in, but this passage jumped out at me -  p239 (slightly abbreviated))

Why didn't the 80/10/10 work for me?


I   Less than 2% of your calories come from vegetables and leafy greens.  eg on a 2000 calorie diet, 1lb greens minimum.

2)  Caloric intake is insufficient to maintain desired bodyweight.

3)  YOU BURN LESS THAN 40% OF YOUR CALORIES IN PHYSICAL ACTIVITY.  ON 2000 CAL/DAY, A MINIMUM OF 800 CALORIES.

4)  Habitual sleep pattern is insufficient.  (You can fail to gain muscle, or fail to lose fat, if underslept).

5)  You eat all day long, rather tha 1-4 meals per day.

6)  You lack emotional poise (your adrenals are overexerted, which causes the body to hold on to fat stores).

7)  You expose your unclothed skin to sunlight less than 30 mins a day.

This was something I had forgotten since first reading.  Although I work out 2 hrs/day, I am then sedentary at work.  I clearly need to work out more intensely, or be more active outside workout hours.  The minimum recommendation here is 2500 - which means1100+ burned, every day we eat.

Do you need to re-read The 18/10/10 Diet, or read for the first time?

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Two hours of exercise a day isn't enough?

I said on youtube that Freelee and myself train 21 hours a day. The person actually believed me and then wrote it on a raw food forum apparently.

Doug also states an hour per day of exercise is plenty.

How much to do weigh... and how much are you eating ?

I mean my workouts must sometimes be of insufficient intensity.  I do not feel this is the case every day, but certainly on some days.  I exercise 5-6 days/week.  Doug exercises at the intensity of a a trained, superfit athlete, plus is extremely active with Faychesca and his extensive garden.

I eat consistently around 2500 cals, same as before 80/10/10.

I don't mean to suggest anyone should work out all day (unless you wish to!)  Many here are active all day in physical work, and thereby might burn 1000 and more, before "exercise".  I am suggesting we question our exercise intensity, not duration.

Weight is (this morning) 9st 4lb.

This is not meant as a complaint about the 80/10/10 system, quite the reverse!

Just curious to know; How many years have you been consistently eating less than 10% fat, consistently performing weekly cardio and weight training, and consistently getting enough water and rest; all without consistent slip-ups?

I will be 3 years under 10% fat, as I've had no desire for overts since starting.

Daily cardio plus frequent weight training and yoga, have been the way for 20+ years.  I am a studio fitness instructor, so I teach/participate in 1-3 classes per day, most days.

Water has never been an issue, I drink far too much by the guidelines; this because I am genuinely thirsty.

Rest has I think been a longterm issue, as self-employed x 30yrs I tended to push beyond my limits, both at fitness work and work as a therapist.  Most fitness instructors do.  I am working on sleep now, getting 9 hrs/night average, still feel I could sleep more.  So amazing to have the info that it is not lazy, or a waste of time.

As stated, the post is meant for folks to question themselves if relevant; I already am, so realising where I may be failing.

Yeah so how come we're told to eat 2500-3000 calories a day? Aren't we supposed to be following Graham's 80/10/10 on here? Seems like 30BAD is different in this way...

i would die on graham's low calorie recommendations...

To my understanding, the 80/10/10 book is the initial guide line to this lifestyle. However, some of the information is slightly dated at this point and, in all honesty, it is obvious that the book was designed as a safe introduction into natural living, directed toward a society of those who fear the caloric number. I'm more than certain Doug doesn't follow his book to the 'T' in regards to caloric intake, and eats what is necessary to sustain his level of physical activity. Telling Jane Doe soccer mom from the Republic of Suburbia that it's alright to eat 4,000 calories a day will scare her away. Especially since, a large portion of dietary information that she has been brainwashed with preaches to live a low caloric lifestyle.

Fact of the matter is, barring you do not have any unforeseen physical conditions, you cannot gain fat eating frugivore based diet. If you are, then there must be some other reason in your lifestyle that is causing this. Perhaps, if after several years of following 80/10/10 perfectly you do not acquire the results that you desire, a 30 day fast at Doug's retreat should be in order. 

The recommendation for eating 2,500 - 3,000 calories as a minimum is to ensure that you're not under eating. If you under eat on fruit, after coming off a 20+ year addiction to salt, dense cooked mush, chemically laden processed foods, and other various neurologically addicting unnatural flavors; you will almost always fall off the wagon and go right back to the non-health promoting foods that you're trying to avoid.

Most all of us that have been doing this for several years, that are moderate to heavily active, can attest to the fact that 2,000 calories of quickly digesting food is not enough. 2,000 calories of dry dense food, which can take days to digest, is 'enough' to make you not feel consistently hungry. Eating only food that digests in hours is a world away from what you've forced your body to adapt to for 20+ years.

Best way to look at this lifestyle is to stop using numbers and do as Doug and other successful individuals suggest: Eat as much fruit as you care for, until you are full. Listen to your body and drift your mind away from the meticulous calculations of every last invisible calorie. 

Thanks Universal Mind - I confess that personally this site has really sent me back to Dr D's original work, and I do tend to follow his thoroughly researched and evidenced guidelines.  Who can argue with around 35 years hcrv experience?  

I use the eg of 2000 cals as that is the figure used in the book.  I do consume the 30bad minimum however.  I'd love to do a fast with the doc, primarily to help long -term health issues, but it's quite pricey!   I have not gained or lost fat on this diet, but maintained status quo, despite switching from circa 30-35% fat and 20% raw, to hcrv (raw in the last 8 months, around 90% for 2+ years prior).  Also giving up caffeine and alcohol, both of which figured very significantly x 35yrs.

My post is intended to encourage us all to question our lifestyle, before claiming, "it's not working".    And not just in the area of fat loss/gain, I used that title as it's such a Big Issue for so many here.  Again personally, I have weak links on the sleep and sunlight issues, although hugely improved on my last 40 years (I will soon be 55, that may account to a degree for slower healing and sluggish metabolic response).

So Kate is consuming 2,500 calories a day, works out two hours a day, has kept her fat consumption to 10 percent for a full three years, and is not losing excess fat.  But instead of suggesting perhaps she cut the calories down by 100 a day, you are suggesting that she try a 30-day fast?  So basically, she should forego a whopping 75,000 calories all in one lump sum?  What is the logical behind that?

(disclaimer: everything written below is my opinion. I am not a medical professional; just a logical thinker.)

Here's how I see it, and please correct me if I'm wrong:

  1. Kate has been following the 80/10/10 diet perfectly, without consistent slip ups, for 3 years.
  2. We can assume that Kate's B-12 levels are perfect and she has regular B-12 check ups. (as you age, your ability to retain your B-12 reserves becomes significantly more difficult).
  3. We can assume that Kate's Vitamin-D levels are perfect and she has regular Vitamin D check ups.
  4. Kate has been working out consistently for 2 hours per day. Even though she claims she could up the intensity of said workouts (meaning her current regimen is not that intense); she still works out consistently, 2 hours per day, for what we can assume has been for this last 3 years or longer.

After realizing the apparent facts that relate to Kate's situation and understanding that the majority of individuals (healthy or unhealthy) who integrate the 80/10/10 lifestyle; combined with consistent exercise, consistent water uptake, consistent sleep, consistent lowered stress levels, and vitamin D and B-12 replenishment have proven to lose weight and fix a large majority of their health issues: We can only assume that Kate may have an underlying health problem that will not be fixed no matter what food she eats or how frequently she moves her blood (exercise).

If in fact she does have an underlying health issue, eating food of any kind will not speed the recovery of said issue. Every time you eat, regardless of what matter you place into your digestive system, energy is needed to break down and distribute said matter. The longer the food takes to digest, the more energy is needed in the process of digestion.

Now, we can all agree that food groups that are opposite of what our bodies are physiologically designed to process (meat, dairy, wheat, deep fried ice cream yum yum bars, toxic lab created sludge puppies, etc), will never help her health and may in fact reduce the speed of her recovery or even increase the speed of future ailments.

If in fact she has been eating nothing but fruits and vegetables (the easiest and lowest energy expended to digest), and monitoring her Vitamin D and B-12 levels (very important, especially for older individuals with past health problems); and she has not seen any improvement in her over all well being, then perhaps she needs to give her body the opportunity to heal naturally (fasting).

When you fast for extended periods of time, you are not, as you say, just "foregoing a whopping 75,000 calories all in one lump sum". Just like almost all animals in the wild, the human animal's body has the ability to enter into a fasting state. This fasting state occurs after roughly 3 days of not forcing the body to utilize the majority of its energy to digest and assimilate food matter. Once in this fasting state, we can assume that if the body is not utilizing the estimated 60% of it's energy in digesting (60% for fruit matter, denser matters can utilize up to 80% or more), then that energy will be utilized toward healing ailments in the body that disrupt homeostasis (what the body is always trying to achieve).

So, in conclusion, if Kate has been eating and living as healthy as she possibly can while monitoring her B-12 and Vitamin D levels consistently; and no major changes have been made to her over all well being; and knowing that there is no other options of fueling the body that are better than fruits and vegetables: then the only other option available of naturally healing an underlying ailment is to fast. Conventional medicine will not help her, medication or surgery will only band-aid problems while causing more (like depleted b-12 reserves), and conventional doctors will disagree with her current dietary life choices. At her age, with 35 years of internal damage due to dietary decisions and intake of toxic chemicals; you must be very careful with what you choose to do next in regards to your health.

It may not be as simple for her as say: subtracting one banana per day (100 calories) from her diet. If she hasn't lost any weight in 3 years, I highly doubt taking one banana out of her diet per day will drop the weight.

Kate, if you do not check your B-12 and D levels regularly and your B-12 reserves are low; start up a B-12 shot regimen to get your levels up to par and make sure your D is perfect. Do this while continuing to eat and regularly exercise. If you do not see changes after several months with a consistently perfect B-12 and D level, then perhaps think about fasting. Yes, fasting at Doug's retreat can be expensive. But what is cost if it means your health? If an underlying health issue cannot be fixed through conventional means or with the best and only way to fuel your body, then you may end up spending more money in the long run if an underlying health issue is left unhealed. Even if you have to borrow money, take out a loan, sell your car, sell everything you don't need for survival (furniture, unused clothing, jewelery, etc); it will be worth it in the long run if it means fixing any underlying health problem that could develop into permanent damage.

If I am missing something, are completely incorrect, out of line, or if you have any other suggestions to helping her; then please add to this discussion. I am just adding input from what I believe is the most logical course of action.

After realizing these apparent facts that relate to Kate's situation and understanding that the majority of individuals (healthy or unhealthy) who integrate the 80/10/10 lifestyle; combined with consistent exercise, consistent water uptake, consistent sleep, consistent lowered stress levels, and vitamin D and B-12 check ups and replenishment: We can only assume that Kate may have an underlying health problem that will not be fixed no matter what food she eats or how frequently she moves her blood

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