Carrying on from Vegans in relationships with meat eaters GET THE !@#$ OUT. by Raw Zombie I would like to extend this inquiry a little further..
I think we all agree it's not OK to be a 'Jerk', rude or aggressive, or to receive such treatment for our way of life and health choices..
But what ethical and moral issues do you put up with in your relationship? Is it OK that your partner eats meat, works at the slaughterhouse, smokes cigarettes, swears, throws rubbish out the window, pollutes the environment, buys commercial chemically laden food, supports monsanto and McShit, works for the military, gambles, drinks, or pill pops drugs from medical corporations?
If there are really incongruent aspects to your partners lifestyle why support them to continue? Why not educate them, have an open discussion about the issue, and if they still choose to eat a SAD diet or anything else that is ultimately destructive and horrible then why not leave them? Are you not perpetuating these atrocities yourself when you allow your partner to live as they please when you know full well that there is a more conscious and beautiful way to live.. Habits in many cases are excuses, if the habits of your partner are detrimental to the greater good, to world peace and love, and they choose to continue on with this habit despite clear and profound information for alternatives, then why not give them their marching orders?
I read somewhere an article about a group of women who chose not to have sex with their partners until they put down their weapons and stopped killing. Now if we choose not to be in relationship with our partners because they are contributing to crimes against humanity, nature or self and family then would we not solve many of the worlds problems overnight? Why not align and be inlove with someone that is totally resonate and in harmony with our truth and feelings? Why not share our life each day with people that are beautiful, peaceful, caring, compassionate and conscious, asking our partners to grow into this way of life with us if they are not already?
People say I stick with my partner because I love them, we have kids, despite the abuse and neglect, but this just leads to children growing up and perpetuating theses habits, weather they be eating meat or abusing their partners or working in soul destroying monotonous jobs for corporations as slaves in the system. So why do so many people allow and harbor family and friends in their lives that are essentially cogs in the wheel of pain and suffering? Why not choose right now to give them a higher choice, to give them accountability and responsibility, to chose paradise over poverty, peace over war?
no, you can't ban someone from a discussion, though the pks can delete their posts. if she were banned it would be from the site itself and her posts may or may not be removed. chances are, she just left. some people leave because of a single post they don't like.
This might encourage you, Noha. My husband confided in me today that he made it through the whole week without eating any meat. He also told me that he thinks our scale might be broken because it said he lost 15 pounds. LOL! And the most ironic part was, I was kinda annoyed because I thought he had mostly given up meat already, since he never eats it at home.
I appreciate your call to live our values, and yet, I believe that there is an element of compassion that I think sometimes gets lost in these conversations. Sometimes I know I lose it. So now that I've had a day since my first response...
Dear Noha, When you see innocent animals crushed on the road every day by speeding vehicles, or see others polluting the planet and destroying their bodies thoughtlessly to pursue empty pleasures, I am wondering if you are filled with rage and desperation? I'm wondering would just like to have some reassurance that other human beings will join you on this journey to act with kindness and love toward our planet and its creatures. I wonder if it is painful to contemplate the entire dysfunctional system that is our modern society, and you long to have some power to change it and to restore the innocence, love, joy, symbiosis and beauty in the world and its people. I wonder if you feel an overwhelming frustration that others do not always see what you see, or worse still, they do not care to see, and you long to trust that there is a Divine Intelligence guiding and protecting all that is sacred.
Well done to you and Hubby Greenmama ;)
Thankyou for asking. I feel the animals pain and suffering, I feel that a beautiful beautiful natural innocent creature has suffered due to the activity of humans who care so little, humans who are that far removed from care and love for all life that entertainment and socializing, money and ego, consuming and partaking in mindless activities come before a reverence for all life.. I feel sad that these beautiful animals have families that will wonder where their loved one has gone, sometimes I see their family on the sides of the road, they see their cherished family member splattered all over the road.. It is heart breaking ;,,,(,,,,,, I cry....... ...... and I say I'm sorry Dear Ones, I'm sorry.... I feel the pain and maybe that acknowledgement helps somehow....
Very occasioanly I have gotten angry and screamed out to the world while I carry a dead Kangaroo off the road to atleast have the Earth under their body, to allow other animals to feed off it without dying also.. But most often I accept that this is how it is, this is humanity today. I choose to drive a car and shop only once a fortnight, the rest of the time I garden and create ecosystems, this way I do not get angry, I am healing and nurturing and this negates almost any negative emotion about the attrocites of the world.. I do not go out and protest, I find that frustrating, so I garden, and each day I see new life, a new bird, I feel thankful and I feel appreciated..
I am so touched by your reply, and feel your sadness. I live in the center of millions of acres of industrial corn and I, too, am disheartened by the every day grind--the deer, racoons, opossum, skunks, and cats crushed into the pavement. The sport-hunting. But most of all, the reduction of habitat and systematic destruction of everything but a single monocrop of corn as far as the eye can see, with enormous tank-like behemoth monsters to spray it with poison and harvest it for cattle feed and high fructose corn syrup. But then I go in my garden and see thousands of different insects, spiders, and butterflies. I feel the earth in my toes and my fingers and eat the fruits and leaves there and feel renewed.
I have been quite triggered and upset by this thread in many ways. I suffered much religious abuse as a child and teen, and some of the comments really reminded me of the rebukes and moral certitudes leveled at me during that time. My family believe that violence can sometimes be just and necessary, if sanctioned by their interpretation of the Bible. I have actually had to limit most of my contact with my parents, and it has pained me greatly, but also was the only way I could survive. I don't take this idea of leaving a relationship lightly at all, having experienced it and the devastation it can cause, even when it is necessary.
Another source of pain is that I also see how I have not lived up to my own values in many ways, and feel disappointed. And I feel tired of the struggle of being in relationship, and always trying to guide my family toward a path of treating the Earth and its creatures in the kindest way possible, and having to try to overcome the siren call of society and the intense pressure put on my children to consume in order to gain acceptance.
I still want to get on that Ark! :)
This is a complex issue. But, I think MSM and the capitalists who want to make money with food etc. have marketed to everyone and have confused everyone about what is good for their health and now people are addicted zombies. I think it is a tough road to change the world without some shock but that is what needs to be done. Very smart people don't know that dairy and meat are bad for you and now they are also addicted.
The challenge is to see how we can bring them around.
This is a complicated thing to think about because there are so many factors involved and every persons situation differs from the next. I am a believer in live and let live, i mean yes it would be easier maybe and more fufilling to have a partner doing the exact same lifestyle as you, but when you have built a relationship over a period of time lets say and then you change and they dont i think thats ok. I was changing things about myself when my husband was not but somehow i knew that one day he would change, and he did, it took awhile but it happened. Thats what a good partner does, stands by them. If you want to kick them to the curb, then maybe its not meant to be, (thinking of more of a short term relationship here) So i think there is definatley some grey area on this topic. I always go with my gut feelings on things, get in touch with your intuition because its ALWAYS right :)
I am Billa, and Noha's partner of three years.
I love Noha like the flowers love the sun. He is the love of my life.
And there is some serious stuff under the carpet of our relationship. too shocking to share infact. Which is possibly why Noha raised this issue. He likes to explore his edges in this way and is open to other peoples opinions, although not if you get to close to the stuff under the carpet.. hmmmmmm...
But I will share this: My personal evolution in this relationship has been to understand the true and embodied nature of Unconditional Love .
Love is timeless and knows no conditions. and love is the basis and the true relationship between all things.
I love you Noha. for better or for worse.
btw: being Vegan is a form of love for all our relations, all of creation - Mitakye Oyasin.
Hippocratic Oath: First, do no harm.
What we do to others, including animals, plants and Earth, we do to ourselves, all things are connected.
You seem to be thinking that cutting someone off is about ceasing to love them; it's not. It's an expression of loving them. When my mother cut my father off for his alchoholism it was an act of love;
While your argument sounds really good in theory, in practical terms it is simply untrue. And you might have a different perspective if your father had not "made good" and instead had been banished from the family. If I told my children that they were not allowed to see their father any longer because he is "a corpse-eater" (as someone on this forum suggested I do), they would see it as a withdrawal of love. Period.
Even if my husband acquiesced to my demands because of his fear of the consequences, it would poison the relationship by making creating a power imbalance. Using "power over" in order to accomplish our ends is a false victory; it fosters resentment and many times rebellion.
I've been through this with my husband and my children and know first hand the severe consequences force can have.
I do believe there is a time when you need to use force. There is a time to leave, as well.
And yes, it would be wise to consider a LOT of issues before you make a long-term commitment or especially before you have children with someone. But for those of us who made those life-altering choices before we had much awareness, well now we muddle through the best we can.
:) I was not Vegan until recently, until I read the info and discovered 811 and the fruit aspect, then I leaped, why sit on the fence about it.
At this current moment I am not in a relationship, but I very much fancy someone. He isn't vegan, not even vegetarian, but has a kind soul. I think that if I just showed him this side of life and cooked delicious vegan food for him, perhaps he would be more open to the idea of becoming vegan. IDK.
I want to date him, very very much. But for reasons that pertain not simply to veganism, I keep my feelings hidden and say nothing.
However, if by chance we ever were to date, I feel that if he lacked the interest/refused to stop at least eating meat then I would never even consider going to the end with him. Which hurts, because I like him a lot.
Hi Riela, it would probably be a very good for you to have a deep think about this person and what it is you really like about them. If them eating meat is an issue then talk about it, this will give you not only and interesting insight into their personality, and where they are going with their life, but most importantly how it resonates with yours before anything snowballs.. If he eats meat and loves your ideas and philosophies and see's you as inspiration then you may be off to a winning start and a very rewarding journey ahead. ;)