Carrying on from Vegans in relationships with meat eaters GET THE !@#$ OUT. by Raw Zombie I would like to extend this inquiry a little further..
I think we all agree it's not OK to be a 'Jerk', rude or aggressive, or to receive such treatment for our way of life and health choices..
But what ethical and moral issues do you put up with in your relationship? Is it OK that your partner eats meat, works at the slaughterhouse, smokes cigarettes, swears, throws rubbish out the window, pollutes the environment, buys commercial chemically laden food, supports monsanto and McShit, works for the military, gambles, drinks, or pill pops drugs from medical corporations?
If there are really incongruent aspects to your partners lifestyle why support them to continue? Why not educate them, have an open discussion about the issue, and if they still choose to eat a SAD diet or anything else that is ultimately destructive and horrible then why not leave them? Are you not perpetuating these atrocities yourself when you allow your partner to live as they please when you know full well that there is a more conscious and beautiful way to live.. Habits in many cases are excuses, if the habits of your partner are detrimental to the greater good, to world peace and love, and they choose to continue on with this habit despite clear and profound information for alternatives, then why not give them their marching orders?
I read somewhere an article about a group of women who chose not to have sex with their partners until they put down their weapons and stopped killing. Now if we choose not to be in relationship with our partners because they are contributing to crimes against humanity, nature or self and family then would we not solve many of the worlds problems overnight? Why not align and be inlove with someone that is totally resonate and in harmony with our truth and feelings? Why not share our life each day with people that are beautiful, peaceful, caring, compassionate and conscious, asking our partners to grow into this way of life with us if they are not already?
People say I stick with my partner because I love them, we have kids, despite the abuse and neglect, but this just leads to children growing up and perpetuating theses habits, weather they be eating meat or abusing their partners or working in soul destroying monotonous jobs for corporations as slaves in the system. So why do so many people allow and harbor family and friends in their lives that are essentially cogs in the wheel of pain and suffering? Why not choose right now to give them a higher choice, to give them accountability and responsibility, to chose paradise over poverty, peace over war?
greeting noha! and welcome to 30bad!
wow! this a fine op indeed!!
so precise and so eloquent!
it will hopefully be a real eye-opener and soul-searcher for many!
This is very well-written and spot on. Also a great picture to go with this topic.
Here's what I'd say. Often people who have destructive habits rebel against accountability, responsibility and acknowledgement of what they're doing. I guess it's hard to know how long to give someone, if you've given them the right information, the right opportunity, enough support...its hard to know what is 'your' responsibility as a partner to a person with these issues...especially if the person is so wound up in denial that they spin all of their problems around you...
What I will say is this. For me, realizing what was really going on was a process. I needed to do some things for myself. I needed to decide on just a few things that I wanted and believed in that were solely focused on me and what I could do for myself and disassociate those parts of myself from my partner and my partner's opinions and influence. It allowed me to grow in a way and see myself in a light that was internally gratifying and empowering. It allowed me to see where my partner was not supporting me or compatible with my own view of who I was or my life in general. It allowed me to see my way out of it...it is now allowing me to have my separate identity away from all the issues of my relationship and make decisions about what I will not give up about myself and what kinds of behaviors are incompatible with the kind of "hold on to your true self" life that I'm passionate about strengthening before I could possibly consider anyone else's behaviors or influence.
The hard part is if the person doesn't accept or acknowledge their issues and you really care about them you get to see them spiral into something that is painful to see and wanting to take responsibility or carry the weight or solve the problem for them is impossible, but tempting. It only leads to further devastation though.
So you're saying that because I've chosen to go vegan for health (and because I abhor factory farming), but my husband doesn't agree at this time...
That I should break up a functional, happy family with well-adjusted children? "Sorry kids, you can't live with Daddy anymore because he eats meat". Whut?
For more than 12 years now we've been partners in love & in life. Part of what makes us work so well is that we allow each other to be individuals. He has taken up motorcycling and I've taken up super-healthy eating. So far I'm learning to let go of irrational fears and enjoy the thrill of a motorcycle (40 km/hr or less for now LOL) and he is eating a bit healthier. Sometimes we even travel separately, because he wants to do a few things that are still difficult with kids, and I want to do things that require more time, which he can't do because of his job.
In any relationship you're going to grow differently & at different times. In a GREAT relationship you relish these changes and admire your partner without fear. Only in a very co-dependent (and dysfunctional) relationship would you require your mate to be "just like you".
I wouldn't be in any relationship where there were arbitrary boundaries I had to abide by. How restrictive! In my marriage I feel free to be who I want to be.
Awesome response. When you go into a relationship you change and grow along the way. Just b/c your partner does not change at the same time as you do, you do not throw in the towel. To me it helped having my husband question the changes I was making and helping me research the vegan lifestyle. Questions he had I had not thought of before. He still eats meat sometimes but not as much. The response to going vegan with friends and family were varied, but mostly concern over my safety and health. When I realized all their questions meant they cared it helped me see I did not have to be defensive and I did not have change their minds, the only person I can change is myself.
So, go ahead and "feel free" to aid and abet those close to you doing harm b/c it is the easy way out! The "System" is very proud of your "freedoms", I am sure!
Wendy, I think what he is saying is that if you know something to be wrong, would you really be a great partner by encouraging them to do what is wrong and not speaking up and expecting them to improve themselves and if they don't improve themselves that there is a fundamental conflict in your relationship that maybe it would be better to leave.
I think in any relationship people need to be receptive to growth... if your partner understands where you're coming from and is aware that you're doing something good they should gravitate towards that path, not being exactly the same...but on the same wavelength. I think it is very difficult to be in a relationship with someone who does something you ethically oppose, if you are thoroughly connected to them, and not disassociating yourself from them, unless you see that they are open to, understanding of and absorbing the ideas of what you're feeling and vice versa.
What I hear is that you have newly decided to eat healthier and your husband has decided to eat healthier too...this seems like you are going down the same path together, even if at different paces and preferences.
Spot on Mera/Feather ;) We allow for growth and encourage healthy and harmonious relationship without the dreaded do as I say now or else, but with caring considerate and heart felt discussion that opens new doors and pathways. It's hard for most people to change overnight, but we can change daily moving towards a more beautiful and healthy life, and if our partner/friend/job is not aligning and continuing onwards with destructive ways and means then this I feel is the issue and the filth under the carpet..
WendyE I don't find using fossil fuels and motorbikes fulfilling, attractive or environmentally friendly, and allowing myself to have a partner that did would be in-congruent to my care and love for a clean and conscious planet. So I don't watch motor sport, TV, go to Rodeo's and barely use a car because I see the death and destruction littered on the road side afterwards, and in the minds and health of those that do these activities.. If my partner loved watching TV all weekend, despite trying endlessly to persuade them to come outside into the Garden, I would walk into the bedroom and pack their bags and order a cab! Why not be in relationship with someone that loves the same things, if they love being a couch potato despite the glaring obvious reality of a SAD then why not allow them the choice to find another couch potato?
"Kids we will live with Dad and accept that sometime in the future he will suffer a horrible disease like everyone else eating a SAD, and we will just accept this and allow him to choose this path. We have health insurance after-all, and it's just the way life is".
Do you meet your own high standards, Noha? Have you always? Has your life been a progressive awakening or did you just pop out perfect, with all the right morals?
I totally agree with what you are saying, in many regards, and if I could do it over again, I would not make many of the choices I made in my life. But now there are real human beings involved. I am in a constant dialogue with my husband... he has destroyed his health with his bad habits, and he clings to those habits often and makes excuses. He also does nothing about his ideals when it comes to taking action to help the planet.
Your final quote encapsulates the frustration I feel, but it is the right answer, as anyone who has small children would understand. We WILL accept Dad the way he is, including his horrible diseases, because the alternative is much more awful.
And frankly, it doesn't matter if we isolate ourselves into our tiny little community of people who think and behave as we do. Unless the entire planet of people jump in with us and start making changes, we're going to be sunk. And we don't get people to change by rejecting them as soon as they don't meet our high standards.
So I'm not saying that you don't talk to your partner about your values and your concerns, but you don't just toss them out if they don't immediately do exactly as you believe they should.
i think you make many fine points - though i like the "not so gently" part the best (but i'm sort of sadistic as you can tell by the horns, i guess).
patient is indeed a virtue as is unfailing commitment to a worthy cause or person.
Right on, Sister MoonShine. As you know, being exactly who we are is a big way in which we change the vibrations all around us, and all are affected to some extent.
I have been married almost 26 years, we've been together 30 years - when we met I ate the same way as him, drunk alcohol, smoked etc. He's the man I met and fell in love with and chose to marry and commit my life to.
He hasn't changed - it's my views and my diet that have changed. Knowing him so well I know that if I kept putting pressure on him to follow my way of life he'd do the exact opposite, but also knowing him so well I know that he is proud that I've turned my poor health around and can still run marathons at 52. I don't have to preach about this way of life - I do it quietly myself for myself and the improvements can be seen by him and as an adult he can either choose to incorporate some of my views into his life or not. Little by little he is improving his diet - he still eats meat and drinks booze but who am I (or you) to tell him not to. Just as we are free to make our own decisions and have our own beliefs so is everyone else - whether we agree or not. The best you can do is to lead by example and gently encourage others to follow.
Nobody ever asked me why I was eating a 'normal' meat and veg meal but everyone asks me why I'm eating 10 bananas or drinking green smoothies etc and because they ask I feel happy to tell them - those who've known me years can also SEE the proof of why I eat this way - and if that makes one single person want to learn more about this lifestyle then I will probably have made more impact by that method than you ever would by ranting on about how evil they are.