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What if they can't lose excess fluff on this diet? Even after years? I'm not kidding!

Question. What to do if you are eating 811 low fat raw vegan diet ten years and you are still fat. I know of two women; Number One is a very youthful 75 years old 5' 3" 180 lb. and swears that she eats only fruit and greens. I have no evidence to doubt her. For the last decade I have seen her kitchen counter and fridge. Nothing but fruit and greens. When she was just vegan I used to train her and one of my trainers got her down to 135 lb. with six hours of low level cardio each week, but she hated it and even though she purchased an Exercycle Executive (allows the most efficient oxygen uptake as well as the least repetitive aerobic to cardio to hard endurance work), she hates exercise in general and unless she is babysitted she will not do it. She has been walking however every day for 40 minutes at 5 AM and later at 4:30 PM. She walks with a limp since she is so heavy that her knees can not take it. (That is a separate issue. She loves weight lifting but unfortunately can not do the best exercises due to her knees.) She first got into raw because of her liver. A doctor told her it was not working properly. But this would result it weight loss not gain, correct? Especially after so many years? Can her body be holding 100 lb. of excess water only? I have not figured this out in all this time. She is getting older and I want to help her. She has no food issues or cravings. She used to love to  water fast once a year, but never lost much weight even after 30 days. She could have gone longer but had responsibilities- that is the only reason she went back on fruit. NOTE: her calorie count is only about 800- 1200 average, and I have to "twist her arm" to  get her to even CONSIDER eating more. But she would at least have lost weight I would think... after all this time.


Woman Number Two is a younger 5' 8" and 180. Great genetics and proportions but a huge spare tire- eats some overt fat but mostly fruit. NOTE: She eats about 1000 calories per day that I know of, perhaps more on Fridays when she will have a little bit of a raw gourmet dish of about 400 calories mostly nuts or seeds with vegetables on a large bed of greens.


After 35 years of coaching people I have never come across anyone who did not respond to exercise. Every single client I have had in the last fourteen years who has gone raw, especially low fat raw vegan, has always gotten very thin, at least at first. I have given up. I never felt this way. But these two women are making me lose sleep at night. I really do not know what to do. Any help based on your actual experience that matches these variables as I have stated would be much appreciated!

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Thanks for that explanation... that seems to make sense that it is a vicious cycle.    If that is what "starvation mode" is... I buy it now.... it does explain how eating so little is possible - much appreciated.

Fat can be stored long term. When you store calories as glycogen you've only got 90 minutes worth of stores and this is on a FULL tank of glycogen. It makes sense for the body to store fat that can then be used later as energy because then your body can handle long term starvation.

When you are consistently eating enough, that is when the body stops stressing about where its next fuel source will come from, stores up glycogen, and then burns off the rest of the calories as heat.

This is the wisdom of nature. Our bodies are very wise and your wife's body is doing precisely what it should be doing...storing fat, because of the calorie restriction (starvation)

Glycogen 90 minutes? Doing what? Pretty sure it's way higher than that in normal activities.


That's correct. the 90 minutes is for strenuous excercise. This is why a marathoner hits the wall and bonks in 90 minutes if no glucose is coming into the body.

That said....it illustrates the point that fat stores can be stored long term whereas glucose (stored as glycogen) gets burned immediately. Like gas in the car.

It is quite interesting, how the body's metabolism can vary due to regular intake of calories. This is exactly how the body functions while fasting. You will tell them to consume more calories, they WILL gain weight bigtime, with 10G Carbs per kilo bodyweight. But eventually the body slows to a stop due to habituation patterns and having any excess fat will dissolve with increasing daily water intake. Their digestion may be like utter mess, due to lack of inactivity, shrunken digestive pathways to help absorb more calories, and (possible) lack of water intake. Not applying of proper food combining, insufficient sleep and sunshine, excessive stress causes all of these to happen and compromise digestion. Eating 800-1200 calories a day caused their body's metabolism to adjust to that level in order to survive, if that weren't to be true, they would have died by now, since the calories in to BMR calories for their organs to function is not appropriate, there bodily organs would HAVE to be less efficient at digesting --> more absorption. Only in order to lose weight now, they either have to 1) calorie restrict more, leading to malnutrition and most probable death 2) heighten their calorie consumption to 10G Carbs per kilo bw and let their body to adapt to that amount so they can exercise, drink more, get more sun, and heighten their metabolic rate to the point where fat stores have to be used. What is their body comp.? As in body fat percentage, water weight, and tissue mass? There are scales for measuring that at any nutritionist's office, excessive water weight can be diminished by drinking water, going to the sauna, and/or sweating through exercise. Do they have a history of bulimia/anorexia, or yo-yo dieting? How long would they water fast for? How much do they sleep every day? I may be able to help a bit more once knowing these things, or it would be a bunch of guess work.

This is not a mystery. There is documented scientific evidence that if you are NOT EATING ENOUGH, you will not lose weight. Limiting caloric intake wreaks havoc on the metabolic processes within the body. Exercise REVERSES metabolic problems and even aids in curing thyroid problems.  What you are seeing here are simply two starvation cases which have ruined their metabolic functioning...and it will take time (and possibly even more weight gain) to reverse this. They both should eat more, and they both should exercise more.


Also, 100 lbs. of excess water for Number One? Are you familiar with the weight Number One even *should* be?  You are setting her proposed goal at an anorexic level, and that is very much not safe. Stop it immediately, please, I mean it very very very seriously. It will NOT help her already damaged organs at all. Additionally, she is 75 years old and has no experience with exercise, it seems. Start her off VERY slowly, walking is a very good idea. Starting her off on weight training will really help rev up her metabolism, which may also be low due to her age, of course!! Make *sure* she gets *enough* sleep every day! Also, she NEEDS to eat more. NEEDS to eat more. Get this into your head, PLEASE.  She is doing MORE damage to her metabolism, her thyroid, her liver, her everything by eating less. Even if she doesn't EVER exercise, she needs to eat more. What she is eating simply is not enough, and if she really isn't cheating, it's only going to make her metabolism worse in the long run, and her stall in weight loss will never stop.


I wish serious blessing on both of these women, but this calorie restriction BS needs to go. I've SEEN the difference in many people. It needs to go, fast.

Exactly what I'm trying to say, can't agree more!
;P Thanks! Your post was awesome,  as well. I think people just really need to learn this, regardless of where they are in life. I hope people read this and take it very seriously!!
I so agree with the exercise issue.  Only that I've known a number of ladies over the years who claimed to have similar issues and eat incredibly little - tho for sure, most ppl lie about what they eat, esp to health and fitness enthusiasts like me! None were lfrv, just claiming very low cals.  What ALL admitted tho (prob cos they didn't realise it was that relevant): every one was a lifelong non-exerciser, having an aversion to physical exertion if it could possibly be avoided.

Moraine, with all due respect, she has been exercising for over two decades with me, then I had to stop seeing her on a regular basis since my raw food business required 14 hours every day from me. But I did not give you enough info for you to make those conclusions! Before she does any MORE weight training, she has to fix her knee. I have seen that many years of useless little exertcises do absolutely NOTHING for anyone's metabolism. In order to stoke the large oxidative muscles of the hips and thighs, the knees have to be in perfect condition. the only other option is heavy upper back work. Trust me I have been doing it with her, but these last two years, I had to stop. Her body composition by the way is about 40% adipose tissue. I am not sure if it is 100% accurate with hydrostatic weighing but for the last three decades I have used body circumfrence measurements and they have been accurate within 1.5%


This person gets deliberate sun every day it is sunny here in the North East. in fact she used to lecture corporations and headsof industry on how to reduce stress, get more sun, eat raw, etc etc etc...


I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas other than what I have already tried- or she has- for the last ten years or more. 

Not wanting to question anyones integrity... however, I simply don't believe the lady you are speaking about is 180lbs and has been 811 for 10 years. The book hasn't even been out that long either so how could she possibly be doing it correctly?


The number 2 lady is obviously bingeing out hardcore on undesirables if on some days she restricts her calories to 1000. The body will always make up the deficit at some stage when we restrict our cals.


If only we could be a fly on peoples walls. 


All long termers become lean on this lifestyle. 180? No way not on 811 long term.

I mean there was ZERO overweight people in the nazi camps. We had edema in legs but no overweight people despite the low cal consistent intakes.


Dr Keys in the Great starvation experiment had some test subjects that didnt drop weight when put on his 1570cal 3-6 month regime. It was eventually discovered that the overweight 1570cal men were stealing food from bins on their daily walk lol!



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