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Vitamin K in combination with vitamin D necessary?

Hi everyone,

since I started taking vegan vitamin D3 tablets I have nearly no pain anymore and can move more comfortably, but running and such is out of the question, as my bone density must still heal. I've heard that it helps build bone density.

In my case should I take that or would my vitamin D be enough? Maybe I should test my vitamin K level? I do eat greens, but unfortunately 125g a day because it's too expensive otherwise.

Many thanks in advance.

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Eating your greens won't affect your vitamin K2 levels.  K1 is found in greens, but plays no part in calcium uptake and bone density regulation.  It only affects blood clotting, and deficiency is unheard of.  K2 is not found in greens or any other foods that are "811rv approved".  Some people say that K2 is made by bacteria in your digestive system, so you're covered.  Others recommend supplements or foods that contain K2 like animal foods or natto.  I have no idea which is the correct view on the matter.

Thanks for the answer. Yeah, I did see in a few vegan vitamin K2 supplements that there was natto in it, which doesn't appeal at all.

I'm eager to hear more answers.

According to what I read, oversupplementation with vitamin D3 causes calcium to be leached from the bones (http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/87366/vitamin-d-overdose...) and vitamin k2 prevents this (can't find a 'scientific' reference for this right now, but it was mentioned in a recent audio program on bone health by raw vegan author Roger Haeske).

Generally speaking, vitamin k is useful for bone health according to a meta-analysis of several studies on the subject (http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=410550).

Also, there is this claim:

The activity of vitamin K2 involves both an increase in the bone-building process and a separate decrease in the bone-loss process. Vitamin K2 exerts a more powerful influence on bone than vitamin K1, and should be considered for prevention or treatment in those conditions known to contribute to osteoporosis.

made in a 2005 review article (http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/15771560/reload=0).

Regarding natto/soy in vegan vitamin K2 supplements, I haven't done sufficient research to comment on that or know if there are any alternative vegan sources, although the vegan vitamin K2 supplement I use claims that it's soy free.

Hope that helps.

Just to update: I checked up on the vegan K2 I use and apparently it's not made from soy, but from solanesol (which in turn is derived from tobacco leaves). In case anyone is interested, it's AOR Vitamin K2 (a Canandian brand, available in Europe only from http://www.supplete.com/product-p/aor04143.htm).

Wow, that's very interesting to know! Thank you for your research Sheepmobile. :)

Should I get my vitamin K level tested first or just go for it?

As far as I know vitamin K isn't usually tested for. Measuring vitamin k levels directly in the body isn't overly practical because it isn't stored in the body to a great extent. One can test a functional marker, undercarboxylated osteocalcin (ucOC), which, when present in excess in blood and/or urine, indicates vitamin k deficiency (mentioned, for example here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19124480).

This test isn't a common test and a lot of labs probably don't do it, so I don't know whether you would be able to get it done easily and whether your health insurance would pay for it.

Also, research indicates that excessive vitamin k2 doesn't cause abnormal blood clotting (http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/9414028), so I'd venture you'd be safe giving it a try if you can afford a supplement.

As an aside, vitamin k2 has also been shown to be beneficial in treating low bone density in anorexics (http://www.psy-journal.com/article/S0165-1781%2803%2900024-6/abstract). Might be of special interest to you :-)

Where did You get vegan vitamin D3?

Thanks!

Hi Sun~Rose, :)

it depends on what country you're in or if it ships to your country. Google "vegan vitamin d3 nature's plus". The brand is Nature's Plus. :) Let me know if you need any more help.

Vitamin D cannot be overdosed except at the 300,00iu levels

The vitamin D council shows a study that actually shows how vitamin d helps in muscular recovery.

For all the injuries in my legs and ankles, and all the varicose and spider veins I have from said injuries, I found that vitamin d helps more than vitamin k.  I would eat handfuls of spinach when my legs or veins hurt and it would help immediately, but that messed up my kidneys (could have been all the calcium I was taking as well)  and I am more sensitive to the oxalates now.  

vitamin D3 causes calcium to be leached from the bones

The adverse is actually true.  The body needs vitamin D, right along side of vitamin k, to utilize... (Not forgetting magnesium...these interactive combinations of vitamins and minerals are a fine calibrations working synergistically to insure proper levels for normal function even before healing and recovery.  When you begin to concentrate on individual nutrients, then you start to throw off vitamin and mineral levels and make it difficult on your body.  Eating diverse and copious amounts of fruits and vegetables insures you are getting all you need.)

I don't eat alot of spinach now...fairly rarely, but I do eat alot of head/iceburg and romaine lettuce.  I believe it helps with reconstruction of tendon, ligaments, veins and muscles...I have no problems with my legs at all now.  It's nice to not need any supplements when eating enough carbs.  

The fastest way to build bone density is to lift weights, or do load bearing exercises.

Hope this makes sense and helps.  

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