30 Bananas a Day!

I got a message from someone on youtube suggesting that those among us who identify with  anti-theism and veganism should also be pro life. 

Below is the question he posed, and my response. 

I'd like to get some opinions on this subject. Do you agree with his perspective or mine? why?



Mind if I ask you a question? I saw your comment on VeganAtheist's channel. I am a Vegan atheist but I was taken a back by your being pro-choice however.

I am a pro life vegan atheist. I became vegan BECAUSE I was a secular pro life atheist! I ACTUALLY see more parallels from veganism to PROLIFE as opposed to pro choice, contrary to most vegan atheist's.

There are only a handful of us vegan pro life atheists unfortunately. I feel as if though vegan atheist's haven't heard the SECULAR and scientific argument for pro life. I am passionate about all three equally because we have the capability to be a non-violent world and those are requisite. 

I am curious to the reasoning behind being prochoice for vegan atheists, would you explain it for me(?) because as I understand it we cannot be a non-violent world when the weakest among us are being harmed for the wants of the strongest.

Care to elaborate?   -SJ

My response:

Hey SJ,

This is a tough one. for me it comes down to suffering. I take the stance that i believe will lead to the least suffering. 
I think it's important to not get caught up in absolutes like abortion is always bad. 
If i look at the torturous lives being led by some beings, and i ask myself would i want to live if i had to live like that, the answer is no. 
Likewise, in a world of 7 billion people, if the setting isn't conducive to raising a child properly (poverty, oppressive or violent govt, food scarcity, disease, etc) then I'm for a woman's (and man's) right to exercise judgement for what would be best for a potential child, a life of guaranteed suffering or no life at all. 
Humans are the only animal involved in a moral tug of war over this topic. Infanticide is common in nature and is a strategy for ensuring the success and reducing the suffering of all members of a group, given limited resources. 
Honestly, i think it's time to think like that in a world of 7 billion people and a dying ocean, melting icecaps, deforestation, etc. 

Furthermore, the religious paradigm of popping out babies to populate the world with "our" people is obviously futile. And in the secular west people have babies because they "want" them. Babies have become a fashion accessory.
I say there is no shame in being conscious of the question WHY? before bringing a child into this world. And I believe that question remains relevant post-inception as most pregnancies are unplanned. 

If you believe that abortion is always bad, you also likely believe in the sanctity of life. As an atheist i have a very hard time labeling life as sacred. Sanctity denotes religiosity and is therefore a meaningless human construct. 
If you believe, rather, that an embryonic or fetal human has the same experience of pain and suffering as its postnatal counterpart, I suppose I can see why you would be pro life. 
However, I think it's important to return to the concept of avoiding absolutes. Life is full of tough choices for which no one is exempt. The choice here is a quick death for a being that is arguably not fully conscious, or a high likelihood for a life of pain for a being that is fully conscious, fully emotionally and physically developed, etc. 

Being vegan to me is about a concern for the well being and rights of living breathing beings. There is an ENDLESS amount of work to be done in that area alone. Children who need to be adopted and cared for. Animals that need sanctuary. If we really care about reducing suffering for all, the last thing we would do is focus on the unborn and condone their absolute right to life regardless of the circumstances. 

I hope that clears up my position -Ben

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Replies to This Discussion

pro life atheist here. I'm against manslaughter, which is defined as the killing of a homo sapien. Taxonomically, a fetus is a homo sapien, and I wouldn't kill one for the same reason I wouldn't kill someone in a coma that was going to wake up in 9 months.

!. In a world of empowerment who are you to say that you know whether or not a babies life is going to be bad? There are people in this world that have nothing and are still genuinely happy people because they have life.

2. The religious paradigm was to populate the world. It is now already populated

3. If life is not sacred, why is murder wrong?

4. I agree we definitely should ask why before having children and also am I ready and am I willing

5. It is horrible when people want babies because their friends are and really they should adopt if that is there only reason.

6. I agree that in areas where conditions are not the best it is a tricky issue. That being said in area where there is not a probable threat of the baby starving or dying at a very young age, from the argument you made it sounds like you are against it? In the areas where there is starvation first off we should focus on people either using condoms or abstaining from sex. Or we could just let the new world order keep on creating GMO's and medicines that cause sterility (this is sarcasm but it is really happening) 

let me know what your thoughts are on each point. I love talking about this and gaining/giving new perspectives. Its how progress can be made for all

A decision was made some time ago that this topic of discussion is too much of a distraction on 30BaD and therefore is not supported on this site.   


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