Hi All, I've been a raw vegan for about 2 years. I've been eating a moderate carb, moderate fat, or by 811 terms what would be considered high fat raw gourmet. I'm 27 years old and have been a type 1 diabetic since I was 1 year old. My previous raw diet, though high in fat, did require considerably low amounts of insulin. As far as my body goes, when I eat fruit my blood rises so I need to take insulin to counteract that rise. I've been doing 80/10/10 for about 7 days now, I've completely cut out nuts and seeds for around 12 days now and I'm eating about 1/2-1/3 of an avocado every other day. Otherwise it's high water content veggies and fruit. I'm taking about 2x the daily amount of insulin as my previous gourmet raw lifestyle. I'm wondering if there are any other type 1 811'ers out there who can comment on their success with this lifestyle. I'm wondering if there is some kind of purging phase where though fat consumption has been minimized to less than 10%, there is still fat in the blood causing this glycemic effect/fat relationship to perpetuate?
I'm feeling somewhat hesitant to continue because of the increased insulin requirements. Any advice, guidance or general optimism would be appreciated.
Thanks a lot, Ken
Robby Barbaro is a type 1 diabetic who's a member of 30bad. His site is mostly about type 2, but he has type 1 and has logged his food and insulin consumption for over a year on his site.
With any luck he'll chime in.
Congratulations on choosing to take care of yourself the best way you know how. You seem like a genuine person and are truly curious to learn and experiment.
It's hard for me to truly help you with all the specifics without investing a lot of time and essentially acting like a doctor, which I am not.
In general, here is the advice I can give based on my own experience:
1. Make sure you take insulin a minimum of 15 minutes before putting food in your body. Only on rare occasions should you put food in your body when your blood sugar is above 100 mg/dl. Your blood sugar must be on it's way down before you start eating. That's where the 15 minutes thing comes in, the insulin needs to have begun working before you start eating. Fruit gets in the blood stream real quickly. If the fruit is ahead of the insulin, you will create a high blood sugar very, very quickly.
2. Measure your food intake precisely. It's not necessarily convenient, but if you can embrace type 1 diabetes as a tool that is demanding you learn some important lessons in life, you will be OK. This will allow you to be conscious of your carb ratios. It's worth it to buy a good food scale. The best one I know if is the Ultra Ship 55. It's available on my website through Amazon.
3. Don't eat any overt fats for at least 60 days straight. When it get's tough, explore the body of knowledge called Non-Violent Communication and that can help you get in touch with your inner experience. Know that it is possible because I rarely eat overt fats and I have been living the 811rv lifestyle since December of 2006. Others on this site can share similar success in this area.
4. Know that the answers lie within. Try your best to put your energy in your body when eating. Not in your head. Really try to feel what's going on. The body is providing incredible amounts of feedback all day, we just rarely listen. Instead we choose to stay in our heads and listen to other peoples advice. We humans are crazy, lol.
5. Again, without getting into specifics it's hard for me to predict what your experience will be like, but my experience was that I took as low as ~8 units of insulin per day on the Gabriel cousesns style diet but I could not maintain the diet and I wasn't physically performing at at high level. Over the course of a year where I documented 365 days of data, I took an average of 43 units per day but I'm performing at high level in general and my quality of life is high. I was low on energy when doing the Gabriel Cousens diet. So at the end of the day, I'm OK with my "higher" insulin intake because it leads to the highest quality of life for me and I don't believe ~43 units a day is outside the normal range that my body would produce on its own if I was not a type 1 diabetic and lived a very active 811rv lifestyle.
6. I could write about this stuff forever and I know there are a million questions that pop. I wish I could help you more bro, but I can assure you that there are a lot of people on this site than can help answer some of those million questions. Some people might have some emotion behind what they say, but if you separate the facts from the emotion, you can learn lot here.
All my best,
Thanks for all the points Robby. Definitely good advice, and advice that I've been following for a while.
I've been eating according to Dr. Cousens protocol for about 2yrs now and though, like yourself, I've gotten down to very little insulin, it feels somewhat artificial in a way. To me it's obvious that if you eat foods that are water rich and low on the glycemic index you won't need much insulin. I'd love to be able to eat a mango and need as much insulin as when I eat a bunch of celery but, unfortunately that's just not the case. I have faith that it's possible it's just a matter of patience and time.
I've recently begun using affirmations and this is one which I've tweaked from the book, "The Healing Secrets of the Ages" by Cahterine Ponder. I always repeat it after my meals.
I agree with what I'm eating and what I'm eating agrees with me
I am at peace with all people and all situations now
I do not resist or antagonize anything or anybody
My pancreas is strong, wise, and energetic
I always think and speak of it as capable of doing its work perfectly
I do not impose on my pancreas by overloading it
I am guided by divine wisdom in my eating and drinking, and I follow its guidance
I am no longer anxious about what I eat or drink
After eating, I quietly relax, release all cares, and give my pancreas an opportunity to do its perfect work
Hopefully this can be of use for others out there struggling with Diabetes. To me it's all about making peace with the disease and realizing that it's impossible for disease to exist in a body that is already perfect. We are perfect and just need to remind ourselves of that mind.
I really find this quote inspirational as well.
"A belief is what I call a disease. It is false reasoning. The life of disease is in the person who believes it. Disease is a mental condition, an invention of man. Disease is in beliefs. Correct your opinions and you will be free of disease." - Dr. Phineas P Quimby
Dr. Graham's 80-10-10 book talks about this (and you should read it if you haven't already or refer back to your copy if you have), but in a nutshell, high fat consumption inhibits the ability of insulin to work properly because it blocks the receptors that pull sugar out of the blood and feed it to our cells. So by eating very low fat (5-10% range) the fat in the blood decreases drastically and the insulin is more effective at its job. This is why many type 2 diabetics can start lowering their insulin almost immediately on this diet (or other low fat vegan diets).
It takes about 2 days of eating very low fat for the fat in the blood to drop down to a more responsive level.
Incidently, I am completely convinced that anyone who is overweight and struggles with poor energy is suffering some level of insulin resistance due to a high fat diet. And the cure is simple, eat really low fat (preferably 811 fruity-style) and eat enough calories and you'll have a ton more energy and stop packing away fat, instead your body will start using it for fuel as nature intended.
In my original post I mentioned Doug Graham's explanation. But I want a more technical, down to the details understanding of insulin.
Here's another from the scientific literature about how fat interferes with carb metabolism. Instead of fat coating the insulin receptors, a simplistic explanation is that fat enters the cell through the back door, and bars the front door, keeping the glucose out. Read the article for the technical explanation.
I'm a type 1 too. I think I went about 3-4 months, with very low amount of fats, before I saw a change in my bloodsugar (which was higher at first, and then as I got more used to the way of eating and living, went down slowly) and could adjust my insulindose.
This is the only way of eating that has helped me greatly with getting my longterm average bloodsugar down.
Here's TashaLee's videos about her experience:
A group.. with not so many members yet:
Great advice from Robby too :D
Hi Mika, great information. Thanks so much for filling me in. So if you eat a banana now versus when you first started out on 811, it requires less insulin? That's really amazing. I'm seriously not counting but I'm on like day 10-12 of minimal to no overt fat and the incorporating of fruit which I was excluding for a while and my insulin needs are through the roof. On a deep intuitive level cutting out nuts and seeds seems evolutionary correct for me. I mean try dehulling 2C of sesame seeds....hours and hours that man would have never spent prior to the industrial revolution.
Anyway, you're words are inspiring. I have a friend whose daughter is type 1 and she is doing 811 in addition to a host of other healing protocols and she has dropped from 60units/day down to 2units/day. That is not a type 2 units/day! She can eat fruit now and her blood stays stable. Very inspirational to hear of your story which is a long similar lines.
wow, that's awesome on the basal rates. In january I got a Dexcom and since then I've also tweaked my basal rates and in fact I actually had to increase my basal because I was taking too little but was always assuming it was because I bolused too little at meals.
That's amazing up to 120 grams and you're blood doesn't spike! I used to prevent the spikes from fruit by eating them with chia gel and cinnamon which DRASTICALLY helped cut the spikes out but no more chia gel so I'll have to deal.
Another thing that all of us diabetics should be consuming is bitter melon. It's like a vegetable insulin. I was juicing it daily for a while but got out of the routine. Anyway, 1 shot glass was enough to bring my blood down from 326 to 254 and that was when I was doing an expriment (24hrs no insulin). So it literally acted like insulin, so much so I was tossing around the idea of filling my pump with bitter melon juice and pumping bitter melon, hahaaha.