i know this is not a nutritional deficiency issue, because once after a prolonged fast, these cravings vanished and i was very happy with fresh fruits and raw veggies. i also know that this is an emotional issue, because my mind has associated steamed broccoli or cauliflowers with comfort. when i eat them, i feel comforted, albeit very superficial and fleeting.
these days the cravings are back. i'm trying to intelligently resist them. it's much easier for me to resist junk food cravings like ice cream or fried chicken, because i know how toxic and harmful they are to the body and mind. but with steamed veggies, my mind tries to argue with me, "what's the harm? they seem so healthy. sure, some vitamins are destroyed, but many minerals are retained."
so can someone please help me, in pointing me to some intelligent and helpful resources, that will clearly state the negative effects of cooked veggies? (i.e. oxidation, etc.)
right now i just tell myself how terrible i'd feel afterwards, the mental guilt, the on-going addiction (it's never just once, if i eat it once, i'll be eating it for a week or more!) it's an addiction because i don't just eat one head of broccoli, if i eat it, i want at least two heads, plus two heads of cauli.
I think it is self evident that cooked veggies are harmful. Just try to cook your own hands and see how useful or functional they are afterwards (they still contain all the minerals etc).... No, kidding, don't do it. Leave it for the imagination.
How can the body make anything more out of what we eat, than what it is upon eating? If it could, then why eat anything, if the body can create something out of thin air?
So, anything cooked is dead. Create a scale of the health value of food stuffs. Isn't it easy to see that unprocessed, unheated, raw foods, will have a high health value, since they still contain this elusive life force, this prana, this something something that our bodies are running on. Isn't it easy to imagine how any, any, anything cooked, anything that can't continue living any more because it is destroyed within, rates pretty low on that health value scale? Just because broccoli was a plant, and was healthy, and still partially looks like broccoli after it is steamed 'to hell' and back, it is no longer what it was. By a long shot. It is a ghost.
Try juicing a broccoli, a raw one, for a while, and see if you feel different, more alive, from it, compared to its ghosted counterparts. Or just imagine, as I am now, it is a huge difference. The fact that you are indeed craving steamed veggies, in and of itself, tells you that they are killing your body. Because, have you thought about how we use emotional food? How does food become emotional food? The food we crave that is.
It becomes emotional numbing/satisfying because it is draining our life force. And by draining our life force, we mask our internal emotional stress. Because we no longer have the presence and life energy to pay attention to it. It is like putting shades on. Blinders.
So you know by this, that anything you crave, will damage your body. Although, steamed broccoli damages less than the heavier cooked foods you mentioned. Obviously, you have taken care of a lot of your emotional stress. So it is just this small portion left that is unchecked. Take care of that, and you are in the clear.
And you could go on with this rational, sensible train of thought. There is all the evidence and logic in the world that supports the fact that cooked food is harmful. The only thing that stands between this reason and you, is your emotional stress. Since you haven't yet found a sound alternative for dealing with that small stress left, alternative to steamed veggies, your mind needs to motivate you to use steamed veggies. And the mind is as clever as you are. As long as you need that emotional release, and you don't have anything except food for it, you HAVE to use that food in order to feel well being. And what is more important to you, well being or health? Only when our health is detrimental to our well being, will we prioritize health. Otherwise, it is always secondary.
First, if I were you, I would let go of the guilt of using steamed veggies for your emotional stress-relief. You literally have no option to it, and it is literally a top priority for every human being to release stress or avoid stress, even if it is only temporary and superficial. We have - have - to do it. Forgive yourself for doing this that way.
Then, you will find out if you actually want to find an alternative solution to your stress, or if you feel you rather want to live with this solution and the health effects it has. But forgive first, otherwise you are never getting out of the circle.
Also, you are not craving raw veggies that way. So you can see it this way too, again more evidence; if you crave cooked broccoli, but not raw broccoli, you obviously are not interested in the broccoli itself. You are interested in the effects that cooking has on your body. I.e killing. Just, in manageable amounts, so that instead of dying outright, you just reduce your consciousness, dim the light. So that you don't see the stressful thought-monsters in your mind. That is the reason why we cook ourselves indirectly through food, because the food becomes us. And not cook our bodies. To manage the killing :)
What do you think or feel about this?
No nice post to you Svien, thanks so much for extensive and generous encouragement to 'Keep it Raw'
Many thanks for giving of your time and talents to motivate us all to stay on the wagon.
<3 That is very supportive of you Haven, thank you for that! :D
thanks for sharing and your wonderful insights! i was actually looking for some practical, scientific reasoning to the harmful effects for cooked veggies. my mind wants logic. it wants tangible evidence that the cooked veggies are harming the body, so it will cease moving into that direction. small example, i used to crave soy sauce and wasabi a lot! but when i found out through fermentation, soy sauce contains crazy amt. of MSG, then all desires for soy sauce went away. my mind is very anti-MSG, knowing how toxic and addictive it is, from former experience. and i can no longer tolerate wasabi, because it creates crazy mucus in me.
so if you, or someone can provide me with some practical, scientific evidence that cooked veggies are harmful to the body, then my mind can rest and stop driving me into that direction.
the emotional/stress relief outlet - i do have one, a great one. i believe in God, am a christian! i pray a lot and God's presence is always my comfort. but right now i'm craving emotional intimacy and love. and through prayer i know that God wants me to be patient and wait. He will provide. it is during this waiting process that i find myself being tempted so much... with all the former addictive cooked veggie options. now if it is a temptation towards cheese or ice cream, i could resist hardcore. my mind has enough knowledge to know how toxic those substances are. dairy has a morphine like effect on the brain, similar to MSG. dairy is also mucus forming and acidic. but steamed broccoli, that's hard to argue. yes, it is a dead food. yes, life force has been drained. but it is still considered to be very healthy by modern standards. that's why i'm seeking for scientific evidence of it's toxic effects. i know that douglas graham would never recommend cooked to his clients. he considers cooked foods to be toxic and harmful. i just want to know why... especially in relation to steamed veggies.
thank you again for your kind reply!
PS. thank you for reminding me to forgive myself. i try not to go into the cooked option, but when i do slip, i do practice forgiveness. but it is not enough. i find that if i slip and give in, then the temptation gets stronger the next day or week or month. but if i hold out and be strong and resist, eventually the temptation eases and i become stronger and stronger. it's a lot easier to resist smoking if you've quit a year ago than suppose a week ago. so i try not to slip... i try really hard to resist and keep going. this is my personal philosophy.
This is a good article on what cooking does > http://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-cooking-carcinogens
And this interview and article are really interesting, the scientist says that when foods are cooked, certain toxins that are normally harmless because they are bound together and therfeore cannot harm the body get unbound from cooking, and the longer they sit after cooking the more harmful they become >
thank you for sharing more about where you are and how you feel and think about this. It is a pleasure to explore this with you.
Scientific evidence, yes. Actually, I can't think of any hard scientific evidence of this. Maybe it exist, I don't know. I can't trust science, when the science people get sick and die just like any other SAD eater. Just like I can't trust doctors, why would I, they have neither achieved the health I myself want in my life. So none of these guys have the quality of knowledge I need to get to where I want to go.
But I hope someone can provide you with that kind of scientific reasoning that you want.
And I am happy to read about your emotional relief outlet. It is indeed a great one :) I am not christian per se, but I get you <3
I wouldn't come far either without that inner connection I have to what is greater than life. And I too am craving emotional intimacy and love. And I too am waiting until the time is right. And I too find myself tempted to fill that void in other ways, through food. And I have fallen off the wagon many times, because of this. You could say I pray a lot too in fact, without that I would be lost.
And I too am either or. Either I do it, or I don't. Either I am raw, or I am not. I can't be 95% raw. Then I too very quickly fall down to not raw at all. In fact, I am transitioning (again) from cooked high carb vegan to fruitarian now. Meaning, I went raw again just a week ago. And all I have to release me from my bond to the cooked food, is in fact my forgiveness-work. That work brings me closer to that which is greater, and increases the comfort of just being. Being myself, being alive, existing. And this time, I will break the emotional-cooked-bond, no matter how much I have to forgive and let go off, no matter how much I must nurture that internal bond to what is truly real. I am sick and tired of not following this through. I want health, I want vitality, I want freedom to thrive and live my life the way my hearts desires. And so it will be :)
But what I meant to say is that I feel you.
you are obviously very self-aware, which is very good in life. forgiveness is crucial. sometimes life throws these hard tests upon us, watches us fail over and over, just to teach us the meaning of gentleness, forgiveness, self-acceptance, and mercy. if we do not learn the lesson of being patient and forgiving towards ourselves, then we can never extend that to others. we will always live in being critical and judgmental...
i had to go through the self-forgiveness test repeatedly, daily, for a period of a year, when i relapsed back into my old ED habits, bulimia, binging and purging on pure junk. it was the most painful one year of my life, but it brought out a lot of hidden unresolved issues from my childhood, and i was able to really cry, mourn, forgive, and let go. i eventually broke the grip of bulimia through massive amts. of fasting and prayer. sometimes i'd fast and fall right back into the junk food grip. so i know self-forgiveness... i really understand~ but eventually, the addiction was broken off through an extended water fast, and i'm back to my happy lfrv lifestyle. it has been over 3 years since then...
but now things are different. i don't want to be in the grip of cravings, emotional eating, and psychological addictions. i want to move on and upward. and there is a price to pay for success, and i'm willing to pay the price!
here is a very good article on understanding cravings, written by Doug Lisle, author of "The Pleasure Trap"
perhaps the lesson for you, my friend, is to learn to be patient with yourself and keep forgiving and loving yourself, through and through. maybe, what you need the most right now, is not a perfect diet, but just a lot of love and compassion for yourself. eventually, you'll get there. you'll reach your goal. you will be free and happy and thriving... but you'll also have love, which is stronger than any force in the world. you will have learned how to love yourself unconditionally. and then, you can be a greater light to the world.
Yes, in my experience now I have come to believe that forgiveness is the bridge that allows us to move from suffering to happiness, from failure to success, from hate to love. And until we forgive, yes, life will repeat giving us these hard tests as you call them. And oh man, patience is a big one too!
I respect your intense process that you have gone through, so deep lessons learned I can imagine. So nice to have come out the other side of it.
Thank you for caring. I think we both are willing to pay the price for success now :) The time is right. Thanks for the conversation.
I was raw high carb low fat for about six months, and when I went back cooked starches like brown rice, and potatoes etc. they felt heavy.
On the other hand steamed veg like broc. and cauli. didn't weigh me down or make me feel bad in anyway, in fact it was quite the opposite, as they made me feel very good.
I've gone long periods where I'd eat raw foods and only steamed veg, no starches, IMO this is the best diet.
I feel a fully raw diet becomes way too restrictive. I would never eat broc., cauli., carrots, cabbage, asparagus, brussels, green beans, sweet potatoes, bok choy, etc. if they were raw.
Then I found myself only eating a small variety raw of vegetables. I only steam veggies for 2-3 minutes so they are still firm, and consume the water after in the steamer pot. Sure some vitamins are damaged/destroyed but on the other hand I wasn't able to eat those foods raw anyway.
Maybe not the answer you were looking for but lightly steamed vegetables are a must have EVERY day, I absolutely love them and I see no adverse effects from consuming them. And they digest super fast if you're eating all raw with added steamed veggies they won't really slow digestion like heavier cooked starches tend to do.
thanks for sharing from your experience! always helpful~ but i've been raw for a long time now, and am no longer interested in the cooked option. my body functions the best on all raw, emotionally and physically. i also notice whenever i do add cooked veggies (even lightly steamed), the natural detox stops. for example, i was going through some cleansing in the kidney areas for weeks... then when i added the steamed veggies for a week, the detox stopped. i no longer felt the tangible pain from the kidneys, from detoxing. when i stopped the cooked veggies, detox began again, and the pain came back. i knew it was detoxing because of the urine color and smell. this is just a small example of why i want to be 100% raw, because i want to cooperate with my body as much as possible. when we eat cooked along with some raw, the body stops in detoxing from the old dead materials, because now it has to deal with the new toxins from the cooked. this is why some ppl. feel instantly better after adding some cooked, because the detox has halted.
also for me, cooked foods are very addictive. if i choose to eat broc. or cauli today, tomorrow i'll want some enoki mushrooms and garlic for added flavor. i'm all or nothing. if i open the door to cooked by 5%, it will increase gradually to 50%. i also sleep longer on cooked, and my teeth becomes darker, grey-like.
listen to your body and do what works for you! thanks for sharing. :)