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I feel angry, again...

 

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Good movie, thanks.
I'm glad you like it.

I am bookmarking this to view later.  Thanks for sharing. 

Not sure if this comment is relevant, but:

The rain water caption reminded me of a conversation I had with someone from Pakistan the other day.  In Pakistan, most of the roads are not properly drained into storm sewers leaving many places muddy, dusty, and dirty. They also have a water crises most of the time with not enough fresh water for the population.

This man was appreciating the storm system we have here in the US and how most of that water is also recycled in the sense it might be drained into rivers where communities draw their drinking water from. 

Such a simple solution that solves two problems and we take it for granted.

Peace, PK

Of course it is relevant. It touches the same problem.

I haven't been to Pakistan but I think their infrastructure is worst than in India. At least that's what they were telling me in India. Therefore they are very far from the point where they can manage the rain water the way you do in the US.

But, that may be actually better for them if they play it right. Because you can capture the rain water before it gets to the sewage system. This way you don't have to treat it before using it. A simple home grade filter will cope. And this way people could be independent without having to pay to a corporation to be able to drink water.

In the developed countries the system looks like this:

- give the clean water sources (springs, artesian wells, etc.) to corporations so they can charge people for the water and restrict access,

- direct all the rain water to the rivers,

- pollute the rivers with industrial waste and city sewage so the water is not usable without treatment,

- build sewage treatment facilities (from your taxes) to treat the water so the operator (a private company) can charge people for the water and make them depend on the system.

 

I am sure there are better ways to do it...

 

And the caption is about Bechtel owning the rain water in Bolivia. People were no allowed to capture rain water there...

Fruitman,

But, that may be actually better for them if they play it right.

This might be key for a lot of developing nations.  Here in the US, we many of the problems that you have mentioned, but it is still managed better than Pakistan's situation.  I did not have a better word to use for storm sewer.  In a few cities they are trying to build both kinds of sewer, one for raw sewage and one for rain water. 

However, countries like Pakistan can learn from both their mistakes and our mistakes, and all future development can utilize the best of all ideas. 

But first they have to work on the corruption in their government, then fix their problems.

Peace, PK

The "corruption" is there to stay. This is part of the culture and trying to eradicate this is pointless.

In developed countries the difference is that the corruption is hidden. A sort of taboo. Instead of cash transactions there are business "favors", political backing, etc.

 

The more governing structures and bureaucracy you have the more money you waste in this way.

 

I did business in Middle East and South Asia and had to accept the "corruption" there. It is called baksheesh and it simply is a cultural thing. But because everyone knows about it there it causes no problems. You just budget for it and in fact I liked it this way, because I was happy to give money to people rather than to the institutions.

 

Adopting the western "democratic" standards of other countries won't work there. They need a custom made system where the culture is included in the solution.

But with so many "advisors" who only want ot profit from the process it won't work for Pakistan.

 

Don't change the culture, change the system!

Fruitman,

Obviously the world is becoming a global network in both business and in the marketplace.  At some point, many of us will have to work with such countries and peoples.  Some of us might even look for opportunities to "help" such people.

You mentioned:

Don't change the culture, change the system!

I am trying to find words to ask how does one go about this.  Culture is so ingrained in people, and so much a part of their wiring.  Of course their culture will affect and reflect in their system. 

Lets say for example, someone figures out a way to solves some of Pakistan's, or any country for that matter, water crisis.  How should one go about it with these mentalities?

Peace, PK

I would love to see someone with a good idea who does not want to profit from it going to Pakistan to solve the problem. The moment big money comes into picture the game is lost. Greed is not a good advisor and most people are greedy.

 

How to do it without money? Act locally. Start with one house. Help them build a rain water system and maybe a grey water treatment or a humanure facility. If they like it ask them to speak to their neighbors about it. Spread the idea. Teach those who are interested how to build such systems. Organize a charity that will provide materials not for free but at the cost of production and transport. In no time the idea will spread. OK, it will takes years or decades to make a real change but that's called evolution which I think most of the time is better than a revolution.

 

Instead the big corporations that operate countries like the US, Canada, the EU use a shock treatment solutions wherever they go. I will stick to Bechtel to give an example. In Iraq (after the invaders destroyed what they could) they build some shitty systems with use of their proprietary parts that no one in Iraq could figure out later. Did they care about the end results? No. Their thinking was - if it is good in New York it must be good in Baghdad.

And that's what happens all around the world. In some places they survive the shock and in other they struggle.

But when a country struggles those who destroyed it say - hey, they are all corrupted, hence the problems - or similar BS.

 

Look at the recent history of those countries that are struggling at the moment. Something should strike you pretty quickly. They were all "helped" quite recently in some way.

 

Take Pakistan. A Commonwealth country until late 50's. The Brits made sure they don't develop while they were extracting the wealth. Then the numerous coups to keep the country destabilized. How can one do anything in such environment? And they blame it on the corruption??? Leave the country alone and they will sort themselves out.

 

Sorry for going so much into international politics. I get so annoyed when I think about what is happening out there. As I wrote above - I feel angry, again...

 

Fruitman,

I would love to see someone with a good idea who does not want to profit from it going to Pakistan to solve the problem.

This would be ideal but a rare gem to find. 

How to do it without money? Act locally. Start with one house. Help them build a rain water system and maybe a grey water treatment or a humanure facility. If they like it ask them to speak to their neighbors about it. Spread the idea....

You have good ideas to get things started.  However there are a few facets of human nature:

  1. They somehow need to be convinced that they want to do it and or that it is their idea.  People tend to be stubborn and do not like to be told what to do. 
  2. If something is free, human psychology is usually that people do not respect it or take care of it.  Think of all the wasted inheritances in the world.  
  3. Unfortunately, most people are greedy, and or live in climates where they need to make some money for necessities.  For example in the northern mountainous regions of Pakistan, people need money for clothes due to cold winters.  Therefore, most people need some kind of financial incentives to change their ways. 

OK, it will takes years or decades to make a real change but that's called evolution which I think most of the time is better than a revolution.

I agree that in most countries this is true.  Here in the US, where were are a consumer culture, things are not going to change over night.  It will take years of education and brainwashing. 

It has been predicted by some experts that the US itself has a water crises and or shortage, especially in the West.  We are not immune to the possibility of a revolution and or civil war here as well.

It is also predicted by some experts that World War Three might be because of water and not oil as many assume. 

Look at the recent history of those countries that are struggling at the moment. Something should strike you pretty quickly. They were all "helped" quite recently in some way.

Excellent observation of which I will ponder its meaning today.   

In regards to Pakistan: Leave the country alone and they will sort themselves out.

I had another conversation with my aquaintance the other day, and we both came to the conclusion that there is too much bad history between the United States and Pakistan, and neither country really respects the other.  We decided, not that our opinions matter, that Pakistan and the US need a divorce, and we pretty much said the same thing you did, things will sort themselves out.

 

No sorry for going into international politics.  I am interested to learn more in regards to these things, and would love to see everyone live healthy and comfortable lives in the future. 

As long as people are comfortable and happy, they are not going to stand up and help those less fortunate.  However, it is the few angry ones who might actually do something about it.

Peace, PK

WOW! I came here just to get the link to the post to post it to someone else and here you are with your reply :) Funny.

We are all one.

 

I agree with what you wrote. Nothing is as easy as it could be. The world has been dependant on the gold, money and profit for a long time and this makes thing more difficult. But I believe in working from the bottom of the society. I believe this is better than policies forced from above.

 

Yes, the USA should divorce Pakistan and several other countries. After that the USA should spend some time in a secluded home for mentally ill... :)

Yes, the USA should divorce Pakistan and several other countries. After that the USA should spend some time in a secluded home for mentally ill... :)

;)

Peace, PK

 

Fruitman,

 

Peace,PK :D

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