Ok everyone here's the situation.. I'm English and I going to buy some
land in Spain and set up a permaculture project.. I've got the
knowledge, I've got about £30,000 to spend on the project.. there are
loads of plots on the market between £8,000 and £25,000.. I'm looking
at around the £15,000 mark, which will get us 4 or 6 acres with mature
almond trees and grapes etc.
I am looking for someone who wants to be a business partner in this
project, someone who is able to fund themselves and has a sound
understanding of permaculture ethics..
I am unsure of the details but have a vision.
If this sounds good to you then let's get talking.
Do you know where you want to go?
I live in Andalucia, on a permaculture farm, and where I live, you'll never find a place in your price range, or if you find one, that's most likely be a place with no water, and down here, the dry season is long...
thank you for the patronising words this is exactly what i dont want.. i know the south of spain is hot !
i need someone who is positive about this thing so please people no more comments like our friend stephane.
i am proposing a forest garden with no house, there are many pieces of land to choose from in the range i am looking at with water and irrigation rights.
Don't get upset, no need for that. I just meant to help. I happen to live in the area for several years, on a farm. A similar project to yours apparently. And I also happen to know a few people from the UK and Germany who came here, bought some land, and now are struggling on their land because they've been sold the worst land possible from local people who knew what they were doing. Sure, cheap land, but where you can't do much.
But don't worry, if you don't want any advice from someone in the area, farming, no problem, I'll stay away.
Cheers and good luck on your adventure
What does it mean to be a "business partner" ??
The beauty of permaculture the power of permaculture is it's ability to
fix the planet. You have heard about the 'greening the desert projects'..
It can be done, it has been done.. permaculture can turn the most
infertile unproductive over salted 'dead' land into green again.
I care so much for the planet, the state it is in hurts me.. and so do
peoples attitudes about what can be done.. oh you can't do that it
will never work you don't have enough money, or you can't possibly eat
only fruit and veg, sound familiar..? well you know what it's
attitudes like that that are gonna kill this movement because it's not
about money it's about knowledge.. the knowledge of how to live WITH
the planet and not USE it will save us all.. but this must work for
the common man, the man with very little money.
I don't want a lot out of life.. infact the less the better.. I want
to embrace every one of the 32 elements of health and shun everything else.
I have lived outside in the uk over many freezing winters, I have worked
on farms and in fuctioning forests.. and yet I still do not have
everything I need.. I need support and I need to know their are people
out there who don't think I am mad.. I thought I might get this from a
bunch of people who have shunned "the norm" and done what others said
couldn't be done.
A business partner.. I want to know if anyone else has a dream like
mine, I want to know if anybody else is willing to dedicate some time
and effort to the planet, and not just to themselves.. I don't know
how this is gonna work but I am willing to buy the land and foot that
bill but I feel very alone like this is a big thing.. I can dig a
Swale, but dig a Swale alone..?
I am looking for help I am looking for direction I am looking for
anything you guys can give me, but above all else I'm looking for
positivity, not false hope,, positivity realism.. if you think something
can't be done please help me understand WHAT CAN BE DONE. I've read
many times people who say they are ready but have no capitol, well I
have £30,000 of expendable cash, is there anybody who is really ready
or are they just empty words..?
Of course, greening desert experiences exist. But for such experience to work, one need to be able to implement permaculture over a minimum of 7 hectares (15 acres? sorry I'm metric...). For a hectare or two, not much can be done regarding retaining water, because over such small surfaces, the impact of neighboring farms, villages (they pump water in the country side to bring back to the villages, cities) such as bore holes can negatively (sorry for this 'bad' but real word) impact all the efforts put into retaining water.
If I may dare give you one advice: be careful about people telling you they have irrigation or water rights. That does not mean they have running water year round. Lots of places dry out in July, and water does not come back before the rains, ie october. Places with safe year round water supply aren't cheap, water is life...
Nobody ever said you were mad, otherwise I would be even crazier than you, since I did a move to the land several years ago. Also, just to let you know, I personally know what living off the norm means. I quit a very well paid job at the University in California several years ago to live on a farm in Spain, building myself a timberframe and strawbale house, so that my kids can start their life in what I consider the safest environment for them.
But I know what we do work in most cases (because some things always turn out not as planned) because we considered the advice of oldies from the area, people who have been living there all their life and have seen changes. That's why I emphasize the water issue, because down here it's more important that most people think. Over the last 30 years, the water table over all Spain have been going down due to bad agricultural techniques, and permaculture design over 2 hectares won't improve the situation significantly, especially over limestone type of soil. It would be better over green serpentine type of subsoil, but this subsoil is very rare in Spain. Spain is mostly limestone, except for a very small area, where I happen to live (I choose this area because of its water retaining subsoil)...
The problem down here aver the last years is that before you could plant a fig tree or olive tree or almond over the winter, it will expand its root system and be able to withstand the summer with almost no watering. But nowadays, not anymore. You can plant a fig tree with a good root system built up, saturated the hole with water over the autumn and early winter, plant the tree, and it won't go through the summer if not watered. I know a few people in that position, and there is no fun loosing tens of trees over the summer or even in september october because the rain is getting late, and you see the trees dying one after the other...
But if you feel you want and need to go for it, why don't you jump in rightaway if you have the finances to do so? Digging swales alone is doable, at least I've done a lot alone myself, but sure it's tiring. Another aspect you may want to consider, quite different from where you may have lived so far, are the winter. They aren't cold, but can be very rainy and wet. Personally, I quite find easier to live in France during the winter time, because it's cold, sort of dry cold, whereas here it can be rainy for days and days, everything getting wet, damped. Traditional stone houses are famous for getting moldy over the winter, and people having to paint inside every spring to make it liveable (to get ride of the fungi over the walls). A friend of mine even left his house for a week once during a rainy week, and when he came back it was all blue inside, walls, furniture, clothes, everything... But a well planned house keeps you away from these problems, just need to be aware of those.
what a great reply.. it is constructive and helpful.
i understand what you are saying and see your concerns, i know people blindly jump into things like this, which is why this thing hasn't happened yet...
i am in the process of writing a reply but it may take me a day, i just wanted to take a second to thank you.
Gareth, I agree with you, but unsure myself too. I'm in the U.S. in a good climate right now so I probably wouldn't be going to Spain though
Maybe someone has some useful info about greening desert and permaculture? I love those ideas and have similar plan for future, but I have no real, practical knowledge about those things yet... Maybe there are some useful books or smth for total beginners?
There are resources online aplenty. Here is a small clip on youtube regarding greening the desert:
Just google geoff Lawton and greening the desert.
i wish you the best of luck, soon I will be doing the same thing but in south america. anyone interested in south america please send me a msg.
how are your plans coming along?, i am interested because, in the near future it is time for me to make a move towards more holistic living.....