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As I understand it, the concept goes like this: Drugs are always bad.  Disease is a healing process.  Practice natural hygiene and you won't need all that Western medicine.


So why do wild animals suffer outbreaks of disease?  Examples in frugivores:



This fungus is devastating bat populations now.


Here are a bunch of afflictions affecting primates:



Gorillas can get pneumonia and cancer.



Here are some killers of wild gorillas.



Gorillas and chimps have been devastated by ebola.



So what am I missing?

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A friend of mine (who eats a SAD diet) recently went to Africa, and he decided to take the malaria tablets. 

He contracted malaria even though he took the tablets.

When it comes to taking drugs to "protect us" we do have a choice.   We have to realize that they won't always protect us and in fact,  can do more damage than good.  One has to weigh the risks, but personally, from knowing how my health has improved drastically by eating 80-10-10 over the years, I wouldn't want to take the drugs....

If I just started out on 80-10-10, as it seems you have, I can see why you may want to.

Can you produce an academic or scientific reference to candida playing a role in human glucose metabolism?  My understanding is that if candida is in your blood, you are in seriously dire condition.


As appealing as the garbage dump analogy is, infectious disease doesn't work this way.  You have trillions of bacteria and viruses in you all the time, either keeping you healthy or not affecting your health.  The pathogenic ones are kept in check by your immune system and other microbes competing for resources.  The problem with this idea is that people will believe that if you are in perfect health you can't get sick, which is just not true.  A novel and effective pathogen will overcome your defenses because that's what they do.  They're too good at it, therefore the need for vaccines to prepare your immune defenses.

You don't understand how your immune system or vaccines work.  I've spent enough time trying to address this in this thread:



This is really basic stuff.

I'm sorry but HOW exactly does a vaccine prepare your immune defenses when it bypasses any natural route that the microbe in question might enter your system ?


Saying you understand doesn't make it so.  This is an extremely basic question.  Who were these experts?

Don't let it turn you off to LFRV!

Well, if you see a virus penetrate the cell walls of your body and insert its DNA, causing your body to attack itself or blowing apart your cell walls, I'd say that's a cause.


When you see a bacteria evade your natural immune defenses and metabolize your flesh, I'd say that's a cause.

Thanks for your response.


Really, your criticism of drugs is just stating the need for better, more targeted drugs.  Not all drugs act the same way and do the same things.  The genetic revolution is bringing online drugs that work with precision, causing less, if any side effects.  Any doctor will tell you that a drug is prescribed only when its benefits outweigh its side effects in a particular patient.  The way people show up to the doctor, with advanced infections, heart disease, diabetes, etc, prescribing a drug is the only responsible thing to do.  They know people showing up in that state need radical and immediate intervention or they will die.


By the way, drugs like antibiotics don't treat the symptoms.  They treat the cause quite directly, so you are wrong about all that.


Symptoms of disease are thought of as a healing process in natural hygiene.  You can keep healing right up until you die with this logic.


Natural hygiene promotes germ theory denialism, which is the rejection of western medicine, so you are wrong about that.  You're right, it's a philosophy and belief system, not a science.

To clarify my point, I would not suggest that natural hygiene doesn't make you healthier (except for fasting).  Of course, LFRV could reverse heart disease, diabetes, improve immunity, etc.


My problem is with people who say medicine and vaccines are poisonous, and that all ailments can be resolved instead with natural hygiene.  Germ theory denialism is at the core of this thinking, and it's totally bogus.


Definitely practice natural hygiene or LFRV or whatever smart health strategy you like to avoid seeing the doctor.  Just recognize that vaccines and drugs are sometimes necessary to save lives, no matter what your lifestyle.

The vast majority of people in the world live an extremely unhealthy lifestyle, so it seems premature to me to decide that living a healthy lifestyle couldn't protect from those diseases when it really hasn't been tested as far as I can tell.


I think you're missing the point of this thread.  What is wrong with the lifestyles of these animals?


If you want to learn about infectious disease, check out websites for the CDC or WHO.  You know, the people quoted all the time here to argue for the LFRV diet.  I trust them.

This may not pertain 100 % to the topic, but reading the posts in this thread, I do wonder if mankind and the planet are best served by keeping alive as many humans as possible, whether by the means of drugs, or vaccines, to take two examples discussed in this thread. For sure, there is pain, and suffering, and loss, in death; but perhaps there is more to it as well, as a part of the whole formed by our planet and all life on it, and beyond.


I personally do not believe there is a perfect lifestyle which will 100 % guarantee a blissful and healthy life. Death and suffering have always been, and will likely always remain, part of the whole. All life on this planet will come to an end, and likely most of it will disappear painfully in cataclysmic events, to be replaced by new forms of life, until the planet can no longer sustain any life. It is likely human to want to avoid suffering and death, but I think we might learn more and, ultimately, lead better lives if we accepted them more and resented them less.

All nonsense, sorry to say.  Bacteria use glucose for fuel, not "toxins".  They always have fuel in our bodies.  HIV is all around us?  How about small pox?  Not all drugs are pain relievers.  :-/ You are 100% wrong about vaccines.


Who is to say that the animals in the articles were living properly?

Who are you to say they weren't? 


Is it possible to avoid stress?  Is that what you are saying?  The primates screwed up by getting stressed and died?  This thought process is beyond me.



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