I am reading Dr. Esselstyn's book Prevent & Reverse Heart Disease.
In it he says, " Fruit carries a high sugar content, and consuming too much of it rapidly raises the blood sugar. The body compensates to the sugar high with a surge of insulin from the pancreas and the insulin, in turn, stimulates the liver to manufacture more cholesterol. It may also elevate triglyceride levels."
My triglycerides are very high after starting 811...and I've gained weight.
Please help me understand.
Is Dr. Esselstyn wrong???
I do not want to die from heart disease like my father who died at age 49.
When I read RMM's original post I did a double-take. RMM seemed to be saying that high cholesterol/high trigs resulted from starting 811. Yet further in to the discussion, it emerged that RMM has always had high cholesterol.
(To RMM: I am sure you didn't mean to mislead. You are just seeking help, like the rest of us)
As a result, many of the posts have been attempting to clarify just what the position is, with regard to RMM's diet.
I don't think anyone is meaning to be rude. And the peacekeepers are endeavouring to preserve the integrity of the website by clarifying the information being put forward.
They are doing a fantastic job btw.
Say!! I believe we have now worked this out like a group of adults!
I don't think it makes a positive contribution to call others anal or rude or nitpicky. I don't think there's anything wrong with making a point by using all caps. When somebody is asking for help, then arguing about the answer, I don't see anything wrong with letting them know they are arguing.
In this case, the discussion is about the book, "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease," by Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., M.D. I want to point out that I'm the only person who has quoted the book! So who'se anal?
We've descended into an argument, so I think the apologies all around are very, very good. Thanks.
Are you arguing, or seeking truth?
I have read Essy's book. It was my bible before I arrived at 30BAD. I used to eat Ezekiel bread and I found that it caused me to have cravings that I'm not having on 30BAD. I used to eat the cooked [non]food recipes in the back of Essy's book and found that those also got me a little too close to eating SAD to be able to have much good effect from Essy's diet--because the cravings lead me to so many slips. I did bring my blood pressure down to 100/66, however, which means that I don't have much fear of dying from the #2 cause of death in the USA.
I prefer to follow a regimine a little bit stricter than what Essy recommends. I'm finding that when I stick to fruits and veggies and greens I feel better than I did when I was doing the Reversing Diet that Dr.'s Ornish and Esselstyne recommended some TWENTY YEARS AGO. I have not yet had a good blood test on my cholesterol, however. But that is because ONE SAD MEAL can bump my cholesterol over 200 for couple of weeks--and I can't seem to stay away from cooked, nuts, avocado, SAD (and the fats and oils and hydrogenated trans-fats in it).
So I would agree with the other respondents to your question. I don't think the problems with your cholesterol, triglycerides (or mine) are caused by fruit. I believe they are caused by your (our) sloppy 811 programs. You are likely getting enough cooked, SAD, nuts, avocado, fruit juice, and hidden trans-fats (hydrogenated oils, etc.) to raise your total lipids--just like I am! That's my problem--and I'll bet it is yours too.
I think that before you start worrying about fruit and criticizing 811, you should "clean up"! If you're eating [non]foods with labels on them then you are getting enough stuff that is mislabeled such that you don't know what you are eating. I would recommend that you try RAW, UNCOOKED, FRUITS, VEGGIES AND GREENS--WITH NO ADDITIVES!
If you can do what Essy describes in his book, you can become heart-attack-proof. However, I personally believe that %LFRV is also heart attack proof--and may be an even better way to arrest obesity-related, chronic, degenerative diseases.
And remember, Essy's diet requires calorie restriction! You can gain more weight on that diet than you can on 100% LFRV. So why don't you try 100% LFRV instead of criticizing it?
As soon as I can get 90 days of 100%LFRV eating, I'm going to check my total lipids and make adjustments. I think that woarrying about it before I get 90 days of 100% LFRV eating is just taking shots in the dark!
I'm with Kati!
Raw Mormon Mommy, I don't know if fruit is elevating our cholesterol and TG levels, but I really should check again and get a third long-term reading so I can see the overall trend. I did eat cooked starches again for a while after getting that first high cholesterol reading (after over two years of 811rv), but I returned to eating this way because nothing else feels as good.
If it does turn out that fructose causes my lipids to be higher than starches, then I'll have to decide whether this aspect and marker of health is more important to me than all the other ways I feel so much better on this diet. I really want to believe that this diet is the best for my health in every way, so I've been sticking with it and I figured I would give it another year or two and then see.
If you want to try a wait-and-see approach too, one thing to keep in mind is that it is really really rare for a pre-menopausal woman to have a heart attack. No guarantees of course, but I figured I've probably got a little safety zone while I procrastinate my ultimate decision. I know you feel more scared because your father died at such a young age, and I'm so sorry for your loss by the way. But my friend who saw her TG shoot up to 400 felt that she had to take that seriously, and even though she felt fabulous on this diet, she gave it up and her TG went back to a normal range again.
I wish I had more answers for you. Hugs and good luck navigating this whole thing!
That's such a good suggestion, Anette - thanks! I didn't know there was a test to see if you have that or not, I thought it was just diagnosed by observation. What kind of test did you have?
That is awesome that you have had such good results eating this way. Yay! I too am hopeful that in the long run my cholesterol will go down as well, and that the high reading was just clearing out old deposits. That's why I really need to check it again! But I keep putting it off because I hate the needle aspect of it, shudder.
And RawMM, have you considered that yours might be inherited?
Fruits are high in simple sugars. In my opinion, eating large quantities of fruit can raise one's triglycerides.
Back in 2007 before I started eating so much fruit, my triglycerides were 34 mg/dL. Now they have increased to 65 mg/dL, which exceeds my HDL cholesterol level of 42 mg/dL.
It's not that my trigylerides are too high, but rather that eating so much fruit may have raised them. All strict fruitarians should be aware of this.
I agree. I saw my triglycerides go up, but they were still in the normal range. This didn't overly concern me since I figured it was normal when you eat as much fruit as we do, since that's what our bodies turn fructose into, and it didn't mean there was a problem like it would be if you ate a standard diet.
But I saw my cholesterol go up quite a bit and that wasn't the greatest news for me. The levels went down when I checked again a year later, but not as low as they had been before I started this diet, when I had been eating starches. But at least it was in the right direction, and I was hopeful that I was on a long-term lowering trend. Time will tell.
Ive seen cholesterol SKY high in anorexic 811ers. Same with tri's. Same in fasting patients post fast.
Stress will raise both cholesterol and tri's too. One must be VERY strong to shrug off all the social disapproval a health and fitness addict gets in todays apathetic society.
I had a high profile 'fruitarian' friend in Australia say how he had high triglycerides and cholesterol. That was back in 2007. I was pretty baffled. Then one day I saw him with a bbq chicken and some chocolate biscuits at the market in Cairns. I felt to shy to ask why so asked one of his mates and he said 'yeah, he eats this stuff all the time...'.
He died 2 years ago. He was the founder of the fruitarian movement in Australia. Really nice guy.