30 Bananas a Day!

Is (temporarily) incorporating some cooked carbs still 811?

Hi all, 

I have been on 811 since the New Year, after being high fat raw for 1,5 years. I started this raw journey mainly for weightloss, but, as it turned out, I reversed 5 serious medical conditions:


1. Obesity (BMI 31, 70kgs at my heaviest, being 1m54 short)

2. Early Fibromyalgia (and extreme joint pains as a result)

3. Hypertension (for which I was medicated, all through high fat raw too)

4. Chronic Fatigue

5. Hypothyroidism


On high fat raw, my conditions improved, yet I was still in the danger zones, on all of them. 

After 3 months of 811, ALL my conditions cleared, I am at a healthy weight (BMI 24) and I'm off the blood pressure meds, and there are no signs of the other conditions.  


This is me now in April 2011:


And this was the old me at 70kgs, in the summer of 2009:


So, as you can see, I came a long way. I have been setting out to eating 3,000kcals a day, my staple has been bananas, because they're easy to get in The Netherlands in the wintertime. Then some tender greens, some other available fruits, no nuts and seeds. Whenever I snack, I have datorade or some sultanas and a bunch of water. 


I went from vegetarian to vegan too when I went 811.


However I have to work hard to get in 3,000kcals, sometimes I eat less because I simply can't eat more. Other times I eat 3,000kcals and will still be hungry. I realize that this is a process, since my body is adjusting to having more carbs. I drink 2-3 liters of water, I measure my hydration levels to the number of times I have to pee in a day, which is around 8-10 times a day and once at night. 


I have been extremely sedentary, with my conditions it was difficult to exercise, because of the pain and serious lack of motivation. Now I am on the rebounder every day for about 20 mins, and I briskly walk everywhere in my Shape Ups. This is a huge difference with the way it used to be. 


But now I am finding that my body needs to have a bit of a break, after that many changes in only 3 months. It's been hard keeping up, and I've also living under high stress. So, I've been incorporating some cooked carbs too, quinoa, couscous, brown rice, a bit of pasta. Also, I've been eating some cooked beans and legumes for dinner. 


This makes things easier for me, because I am the proud mother of a thriving vegan/ high raw 3yr old. This way, we share dinner together, and I do not have to make 2 different things. My daughter eats the most fruits and veggies out of all the kids in her playgroup, she loves green smoothies and asks for one every single day, but in the evening, she prefers some cooked foods, which is okay by me. 


I know Doug wrote that, if he has to choose between a high fat raw meal, or a low fat cooked, he'd go for the high fat raw. But, to me, the high fat raw doesn't taste good anymore. I would rather eat some cooked beans or legumes and couscous then a raw crackao smoothie. (And yes I know beans and legumes are more protein than carb, but it's usually the only protein I have, I eat fruit mono-meals for breakfast and a large green smoothie for lunch and datorade or more fruits or some sultanas for a snack when my daughter comes home from playgroup).


I always have a large salad with any cooked dinner.


Everything I eat is certified organic.


Now is my question if this is still considered 811? I'm high raw, the bulk of my kcals are from carbs, mainly simple carbs (fruits) but also cooked carbs. For me, this is working, for the 100% raw thing was just going too fast, I couldn't keep up. My body needs some time to adjust to not having to carry around the excess weight and high bloodpressure and all the other stuff.


I'm open to suggestions for change, even though I am feeling really good on eating the cooked stuff for dinner, I realize it might also be convenience or addiction.


In love, health and friendship,


Usha x 

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Hi Usha,

Your statement may be wrong...

"I know Doug wrote that, if he has to choose between a high fat raw meal, or a low fat cooked, he'd go for the high fat raw"


I heard Doug in a talk once, and I'm sure that he would prefer a low fat cooked meal instead of a high fat raw meal. I think Harley would be the same?


If you are exercising lots then perhaps you are burned out because you are not 'carb'd up' enough, or drinking enough, or getting enough sleep. There's lots of things that can cause it. You may be vit B12 defficient , especially if you have digestive issues. or vit D defficient. These can all make you feel sluggish.

Fat will make me grind to a halt, probably you too.


On 80/10/10, I have used cooked complex carbs and still felt good, however it made me put on a little weight. Be careful not to eat fruit and complex carb.s together.


I consider couscous and pasta as junk food. They are not whole food they are manufactured and made from refined foods.


Sorry I have to dash....

Take care.




Hi Stuart, I know what you mean, I certainly don't have pasta and couscous every day... it's maybe a one time a week thing, my daughter loves pasta. 


I always use the wholegrain organic vegan variation, that is gluten free, never the white pasta. Couscous is just the simplest thing ever, I pour cold water over it and let it sit for about an hour, so I con't even cook that. 


With a toddler in the house, I sometimes have to make these kinds of choices... but I do hear you. I'm not exercising a lot, it's 20 mins on the rebounder and walks pushing the stroller. 


My B12 levels actually improved, I was deficient on omnivorous, got a little better on high fat raw, and on low fat / 811 I am in a normal zone. However "normal" varies a lot, what's normal here is deficient in Japan and China for instance. So I might start on a supplement to see how I react to it, thanks for the tip!

i've used the whole-grain organic gluten-free pasta a couple of times as well...it is truly a lesser evil, especially when paired with fresh marinara sauce and a big salad.  mostly we love to have spiralized zucchini as our "pasta" but a couple of times over the winter it was a very comforting substitution.  you're doing really great...very inspirational!  and this thread is a great reminder for me as well, that i'm almost at my 80/10/10 goals even tho i've had such substitutions


Cool beans Kat!! :-)

Hey Usha, first of all a big CONGATS on your progress so far and for all that you are doing!


Now is my question if this is still considered 811?


811 is just a ratio, meaning 80% carbs, 10% protein and 10% maximum fats! If you are eating low fat cooked vegan foods that fit into this ratio in the same way that raw vegan can then you are still 811, you are just not all raw ... Does this make sense?


I am not an expert, i have been lfrv for coming up to 2 years right now and just to put my 2 cents in, i personally would prefer, if i was straying from the lfrv model on a regular basis, to eat a cooked meal which was low fat, whole food vegan rather than eat regularly a high fat raw meal for sure... The fat really can cause havoc... But as said, i am not an expert, i am surprised to hear that Dr.D wrote that he would prefer high fat raw, are you really sure he wrote it/do you have the sources? and was he talking about regularly or just an occassional meal here and there? because i do feel that these two things are quite seperate..



Hey Xenia, thank you so much darlin!


Maybe I misunderstood, it's in the book, the 80-10-10 diet, I might have to reread that passage. He was talking about how toxic cooked food is and how much better raw is. I don't have the book at hand cos I'm not at home but I'll come back later and post the reference... 



Hi Usha,


Your writings and videos are so inspiring, great to have you here! :)


Dr. Doug may have been talking about his own preference for a one time meal there because I know for sure he advocates low-fat (80/10/10) cooked vegan over high fat raw.


Freelee, DR and Dr. Doug all stress the importance of getting the calories you need over being pure.  If you can't afford or find all raw then cooked carbs are okay, just not optimum.  


Using chronometer will help you track your protein needs, you're likely getting all you need from your fruit and greens.


Have you looked into finding your local wholesale food distributor for cheaper produce?

Awww thank you, you are so sweet (in a fruity way) ! ;-)


My motivation for doing videos went out the door a bit, come to think of it, yes I have been feeling more tired too, maybe that's why. 


I'm going to look into supping B12, even though according to Dutch standards I am not deficient, and I've downloaded chronometer, though haven't really gotten around to using it actively...


And yes I am trying to locate the cheapest wholesale produce distributor around here.


Everything is in progress, it's just taking me some time to grow into it. I am very willing, determined and motivated, I just need to kick myself in the backside a bit more... ;-)  

As Stuart said, maybe you are not carbed up enough.  From everything you said, I think It's very likely that you weren't eating enough calories when eating 100% 811rv.  This is so common and would account for your feelings of 100% being too much for your body.  Dr. D says although detox does happen it is way over used to explain feelings that are likely coming from missing some aspect of the 811 lifestyle, (not enough carbs/calories, not enough sleep, bad food combining, etc.).  Using chronometer or nutridairy or fitday is almost essential for the first six months following this lifestyle.  It's so easy to under eat some days as our energy levels increase and therefore our activities increase too, we tend to forget a meal or don't account for the increase of physical activity and under eat.  Using the food intake tools consistently will keep you on track with calories and fat intake.  


There is so much fine tuning with the 811 lifestyle, it definitely gets easier as you go along.  I like this lovely lady's testimony here:


There are a lot of threads on buying wholesale here.  My advice is to just look on the web or in the phone book under wholesale food distributors and call them up and ask what their case minimum is and where they are located.  If they try to brush you off, saying they don't sell to the public or something, tell them you are a buying club.  If they still brush you off, call again and talk to someone else or just go there.  That's what I finally did after a few phone calls and now I'm a trusted customer. :)


Many well wishes! :) XO

I guess when the term '811' is used, it often insinuates more than it actually means. Technically, 811 could be followed by living off candy (processed glucose syrup) and pig fat. Sounds like me at 15 years-old! But that's probably not the kind of diet that a lot of "811'ers" are going for - especially in this community so passionate about organic living and animal welfare.


As long as you're staying 811 and vegan, you have a full scale of standards to choose from. The standard you choose can best match where you are in your life. Heard some great advice just yesterday from a 26-year raw vegan talking with the Raw Brahs, "Don't make it a religion where you beat yourself up. Remember that your ultimate goal is health and happiness."


Cooked rice won't be as fantastic as banana, but as long as your fat is low, it will still go through your digestive system, give you fuel to be you, and be eliminated in such a short time anyway.


durianrider in his Melbourne talk repeated one mantra constantly: "80% carbohydrates is good. Fruit is best."

Thanks Tris! :-)

Yeah I'm pretty sure Doug was referring to a single meal, and I remember hearing him say that he'd avoid overts for a few days afterwards. The ratios don't matter on a daily basis, only over time.



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