30 Bananas a Day!

Gday, my partner is not vegan and knows the person who runs, nofructose dot com.

I want to be able to challenge her ideas on a scientific level so I am starting this thread inviting help.

Some things she says are:

But the coconut water is sweet, it must have sugar in it, sugar is bad, I don't want it.

Carbs are bad. I am not eating the rice.

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Hmmm, the argument is primitive but must be addressed nevertheless. Going to the website fructose I perceive direct contradictions between the high carb raw vegan life style and nofructose.com. I'm seeing a lack of scholarly peer reviewed sources on the nofructose site. This is in my opinion blatant quackery.

    Onward, the site claims that carbohydrates make you fat. Well, technically speaking proteins, carbs, and fats can make you fat in the sense that each contains calories. Excess calories are stored as fat. A simpler phrase would be dietary calorie intake can lead to obesity. Yet, one needs calories to live.

    I think its the entire take a good idea and run with it train of thought. HFCS is unhealthy therefore all sugar must be unhealthy. Instead, of taking down the mentioned website, lets build a potent argument for a high-carb vegan lifestyle.

     "Animal protein consumption triggers the release of the cancer-promoting growth hormone IGF-1." Dr. Greger M.D.

    "The mean serum IGF-I concentration was 13% lower in 92 vegan women compared with 99 meat-eaters and 101 vegetarians (P = 0.0006)." Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev November 2002 11; 1441

    Basically are livers produce the most IGF-1 when we consume excess protein like our owns, animal protein. 

   Then, there's heterocyclic amines. "Even vegetarians could potentially be exposed to the carcinogens typically formed by cooking meat through eggs, cheese, creatine sports supplements, and cigarette smoke." Dr. Greger M.D.

   Let's not forget intromyocelluar lipids which are fat inside the muscle cells. These lipids are caused by excess intake of dietary fat. 

    "Intramyocellular lipid content is lower with a low-fat diet than with high-fat diets" 
Am J Clin Nutr November 2007

"Insulin resistance plays an important role in the pathogenesis of human type 2 diabetes. In humans, a negative correlation between insulin sensitivity and intramyocellular lipid (IMCL) content has been shown; thus, IMCL becomes a marker for insulin resistance." Diabetes January 2003 vol. 52 no. 1 138-144

    I hope this enough. I've found plenty more science about the health benefits of plant fiber and beta-carotente anti-oxidants. Finally the detrimental effects of cholesterol and saturated fat in regards to blood viscosity and gut permeability.

http://www.nofructose.com/

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/protein-intake-and-igf-1-production/

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/11/1441.long

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/heterocyclic-amines-in-eggs-cheese-...

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/5/1316.full

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/52/1/138.full

Be careful here. The pseudo-science of high-fat low-carb diets (Paleo, ketogenic, Atkins, etc) is very well funded. For every sincere study you present there is a counter-bullshit study. You'll need to be prepared to comment on the validity of relevant studies. The high-fat pushers are in the business of confusion, because the facts are not on their side (much like the pro-tobacco industry years ago and climate denial today).

My good friend has swallowed the high-fat kool-aid; we can't agree on facts, discussions can get heated and go nowhere. To keep my friendship, we're cautious about the topic. This summer, we sat down with a notepad, recording our claims, asking for citation, and reply to studies in writing.

Keep in mind, food is very personal. Many people come to a specific diet out of desperation. They don't want to hear they are making profound lifestyle mistakes. Additionally, someone with high fat content in their blood is likely on the way toward insulin resistance; They will likely react badly and immediately to high glycemic foods. The naive but obvious conclusion is that carbs are to blame, whereas the root cause is fat. Carbs cause the symptom.

Maybe you can post specific claims or studies here for dissection.

Isolated fructose and isolated oils are unhealthy. Don't try to argue those points. Neither is consistent with a low-fat high-carb whole raw vegan diet. Since these "foods" are consistent with neither LFHC nor HFLC diets, their discussion is irrelevant.

I haven't bothered to read much of the NoFru.. website. The first two paragraphs are logically invalid: "X is bad. X is a type of Y. Therefore all Y are bad."

Implied: Pure isolated, processed sugar is bad. Sugar is a carbohydrate. Therefore all carbohydrates are bad. (invalid)

Implied: Omega-6 is inflammatory. Omega-6 is found in seed oils. Omega-6 is a polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA). Therefore all PUFA oils are inflammatory. (invalid)

From the NoFru.. website:


"The consumption of Sugar and Polyunsaturated Seed Oils combine in our diet to create inflammation in every blood vessel wall and in every tissue in every organ of the body."

The above, whether consciously written or not, is disingenuous. Pure processed sugar is not particularly healthy. However, sugar in whole raw low-fat foods are a full package. Fruit and veggies are loaded with anti-oxidants and fiber which are anti-inflammatory; The only anti-inflammatory animal food is fish. Some polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) are inflammatory, most notably omega-6. Other PUFA, notably omega-3, are anti-inflammatory. It is true that pressed veg and nut oils tend to contain lots of omega-6 -- which is precisely the reason that low-fat diets recommend low or no added oils. We should get our fats from whole foods.

"Fructose (50% of Sugar), Polyunsaturated Oils and Refined Carbohydrates look to be the major contributors to most of our modern conditions including obesity, diabetes, heart disease, dementia, cancer and a raft of other conditions."

High fructose corn syrup (HFCS) and other refined sugars (aka refined carbohydrates) in sodas, candy, pastries, and other processed foods is definitely implicated in overconsumption leading to increased cellular fat (aka obesity). Cellular fat is the cause of insulin resistance, which may lead to insulin deficiency, both prohibiting glucose to enter cells, which is the definition of type 2 diabetes. PUFA are typical fats added to processed foods. Oils are pure fat -- hardly the definition of a low-fat high-carb diet but fats are obviously a component of high-fat low-carb diets. The fact that PUFA come from fatty vegetables such as coconut, avocados, olives, nuts, and seeds is irrelevant. Oil is pure fat, high calorie, zero-carb.

     I got in an argument with a low-carb person. I cannot convince him/her to let go of the low-carb notion. Below I linked all of their links. Hopefully somebody here can destroy this argument. I thought I did a through job, but they insist the low-fat craze is a conspiracy and don't seem to be listening to me.

    I already hit this person with just about ever piece of scienfic evidence I could muster. Yet, they seem to spread their low-carb message while ignoring the evidence. Could use some advice. The person really seems to follow Mercola more than anyone else.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/01/03/carbo...

http://chestsculpting.com/the-one-nutrient-to-avoid-and-why-the-ant...

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz3pXonbufB

DR's videos on mercola are incredible. 10/10

Hey, I'm using this thread like a virus chest and dumping websites that have strong views contrary to 30bananasaday. Here's a new website I just found.

http://empoweredsustenance.com/is-vegan-healthy/

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