30 Bananas a Day!

This is an issue that has already been discussed by various moderators, other users and myself (thank you Freelee, Pradtf, Jess, Windlord, StyleStacker, Sylbao and numerous others).

 

We at 30BAD seem to have found ourselves derided some other places in cyberspace recently, with accusations of us being a "cult", and those that have any views contrary to those of the moderators will be booted off.

 

These comments have been taken a little out of context. The major thing people seem to forget, is that when we sign up, we agree to this:

30bad is a HCRV (high carb, raw vegan) internet community which promotes a high carb raw lifestyle free of any animal products. Our forum does not tolerate encouragement of anything contrary to HCRV. Nor do we allow endorsement of non-vegan items or practises which involve the imprisonment, exploitation, abuse or murder of sentient beings. We also require our members to post with proper netiquette. Therefore, please indicate your intention:


You'll find one such hater has posted his hate here: (Link removed, not wanting to give the  drama anymore of our time)

 

To which I responded:

Dislike. Sign up to a vegan site, and don't be surprised if you get booted for being a human supremacist. You signed the agreement, don't throw your toys out the pram because you were expected to abide by it.

One person congratulated Taylor for having exposed some vegan Nazis. To which I responded:

By the way, to those who think some people are "Vegan Nazis". You might want to question what side of the fence you'd have stood on back in 1930s Germany. Vegans: people that, no matter what, want to end animal suffering, regardless of how "awkward" that may sometimes be for them. Non-vegans: people that, for whatever reason, put themselves (or, "individuals", as you so nicely put it) before their values and other life forms. Have courage to rebel and stand up for what is right. I applaud all anti-speciesists, including Freelee Vegano and Durianrider.
..or perhaps you would be happier, like most welfarists, sitting on said fence. "I'm okay, I had nothing to do with the concentration camps/slaughterhouses." - yes, but you stood by and let it happen. Bad things happen when good (wo)men do nothing.
One major confusion is ANIMAL RIGHTS versus ANIMAL WELFARE.

Some people on this site seem to have confused the two, seeing that because they live a vegan lifestyle, they are automatically on the animal rights side of the fence.
The way to distinguish what side of the fence you fall is actually pretty simple: ask yourself if, under any circumstances aside from self-defence, you would take an animal's life to save your own. It doesn't matter if you even believe there should be no slaughterhouses, help at your local sanctuary, campaign against animal cruelty...
If you fundamentally decide at any stage that an animal's life is worth less than a human's, you are only fighting for them to be treated better, and not for any fundamental change in the status of non-human animals.
This means you are a welfarist. That's great, the world needs more welfarists, too! But this site has an animal rights standpoint, which we would like you to abide by.

 

To make this clear: 30 Bananas A Day is a VEGAN site.

This means that saying things that are seen as advocating animal cruelty or questioning veganism are NOT ACCEPTABLE.

 

To give you some examples of what is not acceptable on 30BAD where animal rights and veganism are concerned:

Food
Stating or suggesting that we need meat, fish, dairy, eggs, honey, deer placenta or any other kind of animal product in our diets. This also includes persisting in questioning the above after others have explained why this is wrong.
  • We weren't built for these products. These products kill animals AND humans through poor health. Remember to check for animal ingredients in other products, too, such as household, medical and beauty products

Clothing
Wearing or promoting the wearing of real fur, real leather, silk, wool, or any other product coming from an animal.
  • There are plenty of alternatives, and these animals suffer unbearably. I think this one is pretty clear to 30BAD users, thankfully.

Animal Experimentation
Suggesting that animal experimentation is under any circumstances necessary. Knowingly or unknowingly promoting or recommending products from companies that test on animals.
  • Please think twice before you recommend any medical or beauty products on here. Please be sure about the companies you get your B12 shots from. Please be ultra-careful when it comes to cosmetics and do not believe the list from PETA that you may have seen on cruelty-free sites. A good test of the list: see if Avon is on it. If it is, it is a crap list. The only GOOD sources I know of are Naturewatch (www.naturewatch.org), BUAV (www.buav.org) and Uncaged (www.uncaged.co.uk). Or me. I know a lot about this so feel free to ask. Google the company name and "animal testing" and look to see what animal rights activists are saying. If in doubt, assume that the company tests the product or its ingredients on animals. Very few companies are okay, sadly. All true cruelty-free companies will have a certified cut-off date for each of their suppliers. Please also remember that many medical and beauty products also contain animal ingredients.

Entertainment
Suggesting that bulls enjoy bullfighting, horses enjoy horse-racing, lions enjoy circus acts, animals in zoos are better off, or that it's great to see apes enjoying themselves acting in movies.
  • If you are confused about any of these issues, please google the selected term together with the phrase "animal rights" and you will find out what animal rights activists have to say. FYI: Rise of the Planet of the Apes purposefully didn't use any animals in their anti-vivisection film. Good on them.

Medicine
Stating that if it came down to it, you would choose to end an animal's life over yours or a loved one, under any circumstances.
  • Speciesism is for life, not just when it suits. Choosing to take an animal's life to save yours in a speciesist society is the same as choosing to take a black man's life in a racist society. As anti-speciesists, we believe all lives are equal. If we are going to die without a pig's heart, that is our tough luck. This may upset some people, you may have heart-wrenching stories to share, but please keep them to yourself. We don't want to hear them.
On that note, we come to the final point:

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE WITH THIS PHILOSOPHY.
But you DO have to abide by the rules.

Hold a different opinion if you like, but as per the guidelines, please keep quiet about it in the interests of the community, the majority of which I am proud to say are fellow anti-speciesists and animal rights activists.

And a note to the pacifists: Please don't start calling animal rights activists "undercarbed" or "Nazis" or worse just for getting defensive over the animals on 30BAD. We just want to stick up for the values of 30BAD and the animals in general. You may prefer to meditate/pray/count butterflies and wait/hope for the bad things in the world to go away, but some of us are a bit more pro-active in that. We won't get upset with you for your pacifism/inaction, as long as you won't tell us off for standing up for what we believe in.


Vegan love
Rose

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excellent observation!!

(i thought you used to be hellicat???)

in friendship,

prad

AR FTW!! (: Great post Rose, thank you!

Awesome post, Rose von Vegan! 

The term vegan has long been exploited and even 'redefined' by people in the raw food movement. 

Veganism has one definition. Even many of the vegan raw food forums seem to allow posts promoting meat eating and posts like, "I know this is a vegan forum but I love (animal product goes here)"

This is why this site rules. Health + compassion = everyone wins.

What Prad and Jon said. :)

greetings steven! welcome to 30bad!

we don't discuss the role insects play in diet because insects are sentient beings just as are fish, cows and humans. so since we are not going to eat sentient beings (humans, cows, fish or insects), there is nothing to discuss.

that is truthful which is why there is no tolerance.

in friendship,

prad

Excellent Jon!

steven,

there is such an overwhelming amount of evidence regarding the dangerous effects of animal products that it becomes silly to discuss it, beyond revealing the evidence. we do that in various places such as the posts in "the science" category, especially in 

i told you so!

if people really want to go on and on babbling about the 'possible' and very 'temporary' merits of animal products there are plenty of other places to do so. we prefer to go by the peer reviewed studies. you can find many of them in 'lay' terms here for instance:

http://nutritionfacts.org/

or if you want to get your hands on the actual studies, you can ask me since i have most of them in all likelihood.

i do not understand why you would want to waste time discussing what has been already demonstrated. it's like arguing whether there is merit to smoking and drinking when we all know there isn't. doing so would constitute a great abuse of the intention of reasonable free speech and is most definitely a detriment.

in friendship,

prad

Hi Steven, OK, your next response will determine if you want to stay here as a participating member, or not. I think it's been made perfectly clear to you our policy, why it exists, etc. Further hashing out of "if HCRV is best" etc. simply will be "playing outside" the accepted boundaries of this site.

So, totally up to you, would you like to be suspended? Or are you willing to adhere to what you agreed to when you joined the site? I want to give you one last chance here, since you really seem a decent fellow who wants to give HCRV a shot. Remember, you can always read about, and discuss, the merits of HCRV elsewhere.

We simply don't debate that here is all. Just let me know here, or in a personal message if you are ready to stop going back and forth on whether HCRV is real, is best, etc. If no response in, lets say the next 4 hours, or if this topic pops up from you in another post, blog, etc. It will just be assumed you do not want to remain a member here for now.

If anything should happen that you are suspended by accident, mistakenly, etc. Please  feel free to re-apply and/or send a message explaining why and you can always be reinstated.

Let us know :)

Steven I do have that ability and site policy is not up for discussion. I am trying to affirm your right to believe whatever you want and have whatever opinions you want, those are for you. But "hashing out site policy", debating validity of HCRV, etc all are not "open for discussion". It's all in the sign up agreement, pinned notes, etc.

I totally agree with you that it is NOT ideal for people to "slip through the cracks" and if you have a lot of thoughts on how we might adjust site policy to help in that area, feel free to send a message to Freelee or DR.

For now, let me know where you stand. Will you be able to utilize the avenues I mentioned and keep within site guidelines in your posts?

excellent write-up jon!

what some people fail to realize is they always have free speech - they just want to excuse themselves from the consequences of opening their mouths inappropriately.

they just want to engage in free screech.

in fiendship,

prad

Hi Steven, I think Jon said it very well! This site is for people who want support in following a HCRV lifestyle, not in debating if it's right for them or not. I mean sure you could join here undecided and then after reading all the information, decide it's really not for you. But we don't do a lot of transition advice, debating different eating styles, etc because that's not the purpose of this site.

If you want to engage in more of that type of discussion, there are a bunch of other  sites where you can do that. It's just not on the menu here is all, just like you wont get an egg and cheese biscuit at a vegan resteraunt. It's not about forcing anyone into thinking any certain way, it's just about staying on target here, as defined in the application when a person joins and as stated in the various reference notes:

http://www.30bananasaday.com/profiles/blogs/30bad-banana-wagon-tour

Steven,

We, the 30BaD team, do not mind if newbies ask why, then we tell them. 

However, if they want to debate whether or not this is the right path to follow, then we tell them:

Take it somewhere else

as 30BaD is a community based on supporting each other in following this way of life, not debating it. 

The 30BaD team has years if not decades of experience behind them not only in following the diet and learning first hand what works and does not work, we also have year(s) of experience in dealing with struggling newbies and again what works and what does not.

We only have the best intentions for everyone, and we want to see people thrive, not just be fine and or doing ok.

**

The case against transitioning:

If one is doing two or more diets, then one is only doing a mix and will not have optimal results.  The same conditions, diseases, and cravings will keep coming up again and again and never get resolved. 

One cannot ride two horses with one bum:)

Mixing a high fat diet and a high fruit diet can cause problems like Type 2 Diabetes, candida, and chronic fatigue syndrome, and weight gain. 

Fruits digest fast. Animal products, fats, digest slowly as well as cruciferous veggies like broccoli and root veggies like carrots in some people. 

Eating fruit on top of slow digesting food can cause the fruit to ferment leading to digestive discomfort and or pain, gas, bloating, and other problems like brainfog. 

***

CHEAT DAYS = SICK DAYS!

Cheating with cooked food, and even steamed vegetables for some people.

Of course everyone is different, but what many members who have tried to transition have experienced is that the longer they eat raw, the cleaner their bodies get. 

What will happen is that their bodies will react violently when they cheat with cooked food.  Symptoms may include upset stomach, vomiting, constipation, headache, acne, and other detox symptoms.  The best way to describe it is sudden onset of flu like symptoms which may last 1-3 days.

*

Hope this helps clarify our stance. If you have any questions as to why we do things, you can ask us and or read the Banana Wagon Tour.

Peace, PK

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