This is an issue that has already been discussed by various moderators, other users and myself (thank you Freelee, Pradtf, Jess, Windlord, StyleStacker, Sylbao and numerous others).
We at 30BAD seem to have found ourselves derided some other places in cyberspace recently, with accusations of us being a "cult", and those that have any views contrary to those of the moderators will be booted off.
These comments have been taken a little out of context. The major thing people seem to forget, is that when we sign up, we agree to this:
30bad is a HCRV (high carb, raw vegan) internet community which promotes a high carb raw lifestyle free of any animal products. Our forum does not tolerate encouragement of anything contrary to HCRV. Nor do we allow endorsement of non-vegan items or practises which involve the imprisonment, exploitation, abuse or murder of sentient beings. We also require our members to post with proper netiquette. Therefore, please indicate your intention:
You'll find one such hater has posted his hate here: (Link removed, not wanting to give the drama anymore of our time)
To which I responded:
Dislike. Sign up to a vegan site, and don't be surprised if you get booted for being a human supremacist. You signed the agreement, don't throw your toys out the pram because you were expected to abide by it.
One person congratulated Taylor for having exposed some vegan Nazis. To which I responded:
By the way, to those who think some people are "Vegan Nazis". You might want to question what side of the fence you'd have stood on back in 1930s Germany. Vegans: people that, no matter what, want to end animal suffering, regardless of how "awkward" that may sometimes be for them. Non-vegans: people that, for whatever reason, put themselves (or, "individuals", as you so nicely put it) before their values and other life forms. Have courage to rebel and stand up for what is right. I applaud all anti-speciesists, including Freelee Vegano and Durianrider.
..or perhaps you would be happier, like most welfarists, sitting on said fence. "I'm okay, I had nothing to do with the concentration camps/slaughterhouses." - yes, but you stood by and let it happen. Bad things happen when good (wo)men do nothing.
(i thought you used to be hellicat???)
AR FTW!! (: Great post Rose, thank you!
What Prad and Jon said. :)
greetings steven! welcome to 30bad!
we don't discuss the role insects play in diet because insects are sentient beings just as are fish, cows and humans. so since we are not going to eat sentient beings (humans, cows, fish or insects), there is nothing to discuss.
that is truthful which is why there is no tolerance.
there is such an overwhelming amount of evidence regarding the dangerous effects of animal products that it becomes silly to discuss it, beyond revealing the evidence. we do that in various places such as the posts in "the science" category, especially in
if people really want to go on and on babbling about the 'possible' and very 'temporary' merits of animal products there are plenty of other places to do so. we prefer to go by the peer reviewed studies. you can find many of them in 'lay' terms here for instance:
or if you want to get your hands on the actual studies, you can ask me since i have most of them in all likelihood.
i do not understand why you would want to waste time discussing what has been already demonstrated. it's like arguing whether there is merit to smoking and drinking when we all know there isn't. doing so would constitute a great abuse of the intention of reasonable free speech and is most definitely a detriment.
Hi Steven, OK, your next response will determine if you want to stay here as a participating member, or not. I think it's been made perfectly clear to you our policy, why it exists, etc. Further hashing out of "if HCRV is best" etc. simply will be "playing outside" the accepted boundaries of this site.
So, totally up to you, would you like to be suspended? Or are you willing to adhere to what you agreed to when you joined the site? I want to give you one last chance here, since you really seem a decent fellow who wants to give HCRV a shot. Remember, you can always read about, and discuss, the merits of HCRV elsewhere.
We simply don't debate that here is all. Just let me know here, or in a personal message if you are ready to stop going back and forth on whether HCRV is real, is best, etc. If no response in, lets say the next 4 hours, or if this topic pops up from you in another post, blog, etc. It will just be assumed you do not want to remain a member here for now.
If anything should happen that you are suspended by accident, mistakenly, etc. Please feel free to re-apply and/or send a message explaining why and you can always be reinstated.
Let us know :)
Steven I do have that ability and site policy is not up for discussion. I am trying to affirm your right to believe whatever you want and have whatever opinions you want, those are for you. But "hashing out site policy", debating validity of HCRV, etc all are not "open for discussion". It's all in the sign up agreement, pinned notes, etc.
I totally agree with you that it is NOT ideal for people to "slip through the cracks" and if you have a lot of thoughts on how we might adjust site policy to help in that area, feel free to send a message to Freelee or DR.
For now, let me know where you stand. Will you be able to utilize the avenues I mentioned and keep within site guidelines in your posts?
excellent write-up jon!
what some people fail to realize is they always have free speech - they just want to excuse themselves from the consequences of opening their mouths inappropriately.
they just want to engage in free screech.
Hi Steven, I think Jon said it very well! This site is for people who want support in following a HCRV lifestyle, not in debating if it's right for them or not. I mean sure you could join here undecided and then after reading all the information, decide it's really not for you. But we don't do a lot of transition advice, debating different eating styles, etc because that's not the purpose of this site.
If you want to engage in more of that type of discussion, there are a bunch of other sites where you can do that. It's just not on the menu here is all, just like you wont get an egg and cheese biscuit at a vegan resteraunt. It's not about forcing anyone into thinking any certain way, it's just about staying on target here, as defined in the application when a person joins and as stated in the various reference notes:
We, the 30BaD team, do not mind if newbies ask why, then we tell them.
However, if they want to debate whether or not this is the right path to follow, then we tell them:
as 30BaD is a community based on supporting each other in following this way of life, not debating it.
The 30BaD team has years if not decades of experience behind them not only in following the diet and learning first hand what works and does not work, we also have year(s) of experience in dealing with struggling newbies and again what works and what does not.
We only have the best intentions for everyone, and we want to see people thrive, not just be fine and or doing ok.
The case against transitioning:
If one is doing two or more diets, then one is only doing a mix and will not have optimal results. The same conditions, diseases, and cravings will keep coming up again and again and never get resolved.
One cannot ride two horses with one bum:)
Mixing a high fat diet and a high fruit diet can cause problems like Type 2 Diabetes, candida, and chronic fatigue syndrome, and weight gain.
Fruits digest fast. Animal products, fats, digest slowly as well as cruciferous veggies like broccoli and root veggies like carrots in some people.
Eating fruit on top of slow digesting food can cause the fruit to ferment leading to digestive discomfort and or pain, gas, bloating, and other problems like brainfog.
CHEAT DAYS = SICK DAYS!
Cheating with cooked food, and even steamed vegetables for some people.
Of course everyone is different, but what many members who have tried to transition have experienced is that the longer they eat raw, the cleaner their bodies get.
What will happen is that their bodies will react violently when they cheat with cooked food. Symptoms may include upset stomach, vomiting, constipation, headache, acne, and other detox symptoms. The best way to describe it is sudden onset of flu like symptoms which may last 1-3 days.
Hope this helps clarify our stance. If you have any questions as to why we do things, you can ask us and or read the Banana Wagon Tour.