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boutenko family aka the 'raw family'. ive met em all and lovely folk they are. and if you ask them personally if they eat cooked food they always say 'yes'. exception being victoria and she claims its cos she eats too much and doesnt exercise enough.

but let me tell you folks, if your as obese as victoria is, you are chewing a heck of a lot of calories to just maintain that weight and its IMPOSSIBLE to stay that weight on just raw plant foods alone. youd literally vomit on the amount of nuts/seeds/oil needed to support that sort of caloric excess.

my sincere advice to victoria is the same i gave sergei and valya, 'if you want to be slim, trim, fit and 100% raw vegan like natures design, simply get enough cals from your fav sweet fruits for starters.."

we need to hold the raw authors to a higher standard. what does it say about our raw movement when the 'raw family' females are chronically overweight from eating cooked food?

victoria boutenko has sold more raw food books than anyone in history. people constantly tell me 'well the raw diet sounds great but how come that victoria lady is obese!!!!..she is fatter than most people you see at mcdonalds!! etc'

it pains me to hear this and see victoria on stage and promoting the benefits of a raw food diet but she is obese...

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BB :-)

I agree Dr. D is a rare man in the world of scoundrels.

Like with anything supporting those of good character and sound advice makes a whole lot of sense to me.

So this is why supporting Dr. D. makes sense to me unless one day he starts eating 6 tiered bacon burgers or I find out he is now working as a butcher at Safeway which I don't believe will happen.

The only way that criminals are and continue in business is because people either don't know so they continue to support them or no one is willing to take the time to expose the scoundrels.

Harley has the courage and others to shed some light on what might be a very dirty nasty little secret.

It is very simple support the good in this world and cut off the nasty filthy dirty trolls.
Chel Yeah and some don't make books take hard earned sweat equity money from people with hopes of a solution and put devilish recipes on how to and " they don't do"

Big difference here.

They are scoundrels if this is true.

I could use some others words but don't want to offend anyone right now.
harley is not just full of ideas but experiences.

I think we are using our intelligence if we question the obvious as in this case.
It is a very old discussion, one that came up many times, over a decade ago among the raw leaders of the day. We got weary of talking about people, however, and at least for myself, decided that the best practice was to simply walk my walk, and talk my talk.
You want to talk about ideas with me? Great.
You want to talk about the science behind my work, or the "science" behind the comments from other raw leaders? Fine.
You want to talk about people? You won't find me in that conversation.
Amen to that!
Perhaps that's a good note to end this discussion on.
I agree with you Ben.

I feel that even if the Boutenko family doesn't eat an all raw vegan diet, they are still doing a good thing. I thoroughly enjoyed "Green For Life" and I think many other people have too. It opened my eyes up to many things that have benefited my health.

I also think it is good to question people. However, I think we should take the good and leave the bad. The Boutenkos are obviously spreading a positive message whether or not they are following it. Just because someone knows what is right does not mean that it is always easy for them to follow that path. For example...many people on this website know that lfrv works for them, but aren't always able to stick to it.

Overall, I think we should let them do their thing and if you don't think they are practicing what they preach and don't want to support them...then don't.
The Boutenkos are obviously spreading a positive message whether or not they are following it.

This is the issue. If they choose to eat cooked food, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that if that's what they choose to do and are transparent about it. However Victoria describes cooked food eating as an addiction, yet she herself has admitted only recently she eats cooked now. What does this make her then according to her definition, or does she see things differently now? This would all be quite confusing for her followers, and may leave them wondering whether being 100% raw in the long term is a good idea (am I going to become obese?) or even possible. 100% raw may not be for everybody, but many in the raw movement now are leading people to believe that it can't be done, same with being a vegan. This isn't the case, but since there are certainly more ways to do a raw diet wrong than there are effective long term approaches of doing it, many may be discouraged from even considering giving 100% lfrv a fair try.
I will tell you Into Raw I've spent more time than I'd have liked confronting Paul Nison on his blog regarding his recent remarks claiming that no long term 100% raw foodists where known to exist and that since he had failed on a 100% rv diet and now surrounds himself with people who agree with him that vegan diets do not work. I endured plenty of criticism for this and was never given a response to my questions by Paul, but it seems because of the efforts of others and myself, he is at least for now less outspoken on this issue and concedes now that 'if 100% rv works for you I don't have a problem with that'. I did not confront him in an attempt to change Paul Nison's habits but merely to point out that his statements were unfounded and illogical.

Making an observation about an obvious inconsistency between another's philosophy and habits does not mean we have to take them to task, it is their responsibility to live up to their word or not, not ours.

However those that make misleading or false statements about raw food or veganism should be confronted. This is what I do and will continue to do. As far as I know Victoria has not made any such claims, but if she does I will be among the first to write her a letter on the subject.

I do not have the 12 steps to raw book currently, but I do recall reading in it something to the effect of there are two types of eaters: healthy eaters, who eat when hungry and stop when satisfied, and compulsive eaters, people who will continue to eat if food as long as there is food on the plate, eat for emotional comfort, etc. She said the first category could get away with eating small amounts of cooked food on occasion, while the latter should be go to all efforts to avoid any cooked due to their addictive personality tendencies. She said she fell into the latter category. It doesn't get any clearer than that what she is claiming to be with respect to her diet. This is not to say that her viewpoint may change, but I think this would be unfortunate because I think this zero tolerance policy for cooked food is the most effective approach for most people and their unhealthy approach to eating to staying 100% raw.

What one person looks like or what they say, shouldn't influence someones entire decision as to whether they convert to raw or not. If it does, then this would be the person that is also likely to jump off a bridge if you told them too. They will soon learn in time, just like the majority of us who started out on high fat raw did.

That example is absurd, and it is extremely optimistic of you to assume that most people who start out on high fat raw will end up at lfrv when many of the most prominent and/or long time leaders in the raw movement right now use and/or endorse cooked food in the diet, including Nison, Clement, Cousens, Gianni and the Boutenkos. How are people to be blamed for not believing that a 100% raw vegan diet is possible or desireable when most of the visible leaders in the movement hold this belief? Many of us encountered Doug Graham through one or more of these figures, myself included. But had they been saying that a 100% raw diet doesn't work all along, how many of us would be here now?

We human beings are considerably less rational in the way we make decisions than we like to think, and the way prominent figures appear and what they say has an enormous influence on how others make decisions, that is why celebrity endorsements are so effective in advertising campaigns. It is not practical to expect that everyone will do their due diligence and research the issue, people have busy lives. If raw foods does not seem worth their time researching because of what many leaders in the movement are now saying, whether or not this is actually the case, then most people won't.
We need more successful LFRVs out in the public eye to show that it really is possible to THRIVE on a raw vegan diet!
That's the idea alright :)



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