30 Bananas a Day!

Something I just wrote about dietary thermogenesis.

I have a blog where I write about the 801010 lifestyle, and I get a lot of questions.  This  morning, someone asked me to explain the ins and outs of dietary thermogenesis.  I'm not a doctor or an expert(YET), but I think I did a pretty good job so here's what I wrote, feedback would be appreciated :)

"I’m still a newb in many ways, I’ve only been at this for just over a year and am self-educating rather than paying for someone else to tell me what the government told them to tell me.  Now, to explain the ins and outs of dietary thermogenesis would require a vast wealth of scientific knowledge that I do not possess, it would require terms like “sympathetic nervous system” and “preganglionic neurons” and I don’t have my biochem book with me to reference.

Here’s the definition of dietary thermogenesis: Also known as the thermic effect of food, dietary thermogenesis, or diet-induced thermogenesis, DIT, is the process of energy production in the body caused directly by the metabolizing of food consumed. Dietary thermogenesis is influenced by factors relating to the composition of the food and the physical state of the individual. A 2004 analysis published in “Nutrition and Metabolism” of research on dietary thermogenesis found that in an energy-balanced state, a mixed diet of proteins, fats and carbohydrates produced an energy expenditure from dietary thermogenesis that constituted 5 to 15 percent of total daily energy expenditure.

Now, you will find carbohydrates burn the second most calories in thermogenesis, with protein being the first.  That’s really because proteins are much harder for us to digest, they require more work.  Protein should NOT be your main source of calories because 1) our bodies run on carbohydrates not protein, 2) excess protein puts the body into an unnatural state called ketosis and 3) excess protein is acidifying to the body, even plant protein.  Protein isn’t optimal like carbs are.

It’s important to note that not every single calorie gets burned off in thermogenesis- most of what you eat is used to perform bodily functions, some is stored as glycogen in the liver/muscles.  If you want the specific numbers relating to what percentage of calories are burned off in thermogenesis, please message me off anon and I will respond privately.    I’m not posting anything that could be used as a formula to calculate “how many calories I should eat” because I don’t want to aid someone still struggling with an eating disorder.  I believe formulas are unnecessary and damaging in that respect. 

Additionally, it’s important to look at more than just the words on a page but the living examples of this.  A lot of science is conflicting, so many diets tout that carbs are the culprit and have plenty of “facts” to back it up, but don’t have the long terms results as proof.  Atkins had plenty of studies “proving” that animal protein is healthy long-term and we should all know what a load that  is by now.  You can manipulate facts in your favor but you can’t hide the results when you put them into practice.  I mean sure people lose weight quickly, initially, on high-protein diets but that’s because they’re dehydrated and losing water weight.  Find me someone who’s been doing Atkins long-term, who doesn’t practice calorie restriction and portion control in addition to working out a ton, who is in good physical shape.  Here, I’ll get you started.  I feel bad for these people :(

Then there’s this study, in which the participants were overfed by thousands of carbohydrate calories and “spontaneously” burned 400% more calories(the more low fat carbs you eat, the more you will burn).  The info you’re looking for is present in the beginning and in the tables, you do have to trudge through some medical jargon though, you’ll see that they gained some weight, note that it was in the form of muscle with only 1kg being fat, and they were literally eating an excess of thousands of calories on top of what they would normally eat.  There’s no way an average person could eat enough to gain fat on 801010.  There are no overweight long-term 801010ers.  Sometimes people gain/hold onto a little bit of extra weight due to edema if they’ve been restricting/binging&purging- this can last a month, it can last a year or two.  It depends on the severity of their previous lifestyle.  But once the body is healed, once it trusts that it doesn’t have to be in starvation mode,  you’ll be a lean mean fruit munching machine.  801010 is not for people looking for instant gratification, it’s for people who are serious about being healthy long-term.

You wanna be fit and healthy eating as much food as you care for without limiting your intake and relying on supplements?  Eat 801010."

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Comment by Gina Riedel on February 22, 2014 at 3:02pm

Thank you for the link to the hard science study.  

Then there’s this study, in which the participants were overfed by thousands of carbohydrate calories and “spontaneously” burned 400% more calories(the more low fat carbs you eat, the more you will burn).  The info you’re looking for is present in the beginning and in the tables, you do have to trudge through some medical jargon though, you’ll see that they gained some weight, note that it was in the form of muscle with only 1kg being fat, and they were literally eating an excess of thousands of calories on top of what they would normally eat.  There’s no way an average person could eat enough to gain fat on 801010.  There are no overweight long-term 801010ers.  Sometimes people gain/hold onto a little bit of extra weight due to edema if they’ve been restricting/binging&purging- this can last a month, it can last a year or two.  It depends on the severity of their previous lifestyle.  But once the body is healed, once it trusts that it doesn’t have to be in starvation mode,  you’ll be a lean mean fruit munching machine.  801010 is not for people looking for instant gratification, it’s for people who are serious about being healthy long-term.

Comment by athena on February 7, 2014 at 6:03am

This is very helpful! I love learning the science behind what our bodies are doing. Seems we still have such a long way to go before discovering the intimate details of this science. Our bodies are not calculators! 1 + 1 does not = 2 in all cases.

Your conclusions are spot on--long-term it is impossible to gain fat on 811rv.

I really loved that second article you linked to. That was very intriguing.

I have a couple questions about it. Check this out.

The over-feeding group in that experiement was being fed ~3986 calories (16.69 MJ) per day, and of that, 698 grams were carbs, 97 grams were fat, and 82 grams were protein.

Did I read that table right?

97 grams of fat per day?

In the same methods section it shows that towards the end of the study (the final 20 days), the overfeeding group was maintaing a macronutrient ratio of 70% carbs, 8% protein, and 22% fat.

Those ratios definitely begin to lean towards a higher carbohydrate ratio, but it still seems crazy that they can say they were "overfeeding" carbs to a group of males with 698 grams of carbs per day. I regularly eat over 600 grams of carbs per day and I'm a 130 pound womyn! And now that my weight has seemed to plateau, it shows that 811 or 955 ratios will get you closer to that ideal weight with virtually no cap on amounts of carbs you can eat for your body size.

I do like their introduction, though. They write,

“During experimental overfeeding, weight gain in many individuals falls short of what would be predicted from the amount of excess energy consumed. Since absorption of nutrients is not impaired by overfeeding, this phenomenon must be related to increased energy expenditure (thermogenesis) during periods of overnutrition. This adaptive increase in metabolic rate was initially referred to as “luxuskonsumption”, and currently is often called dietary or adaptive thermogenesis. The mechanisms of dietary thermogenesis in man remain obscure, although an increase in lean body mass (LBM) and triiodothyronine (T3) production during overfeeding may contribute to an elevated metabolic rate (3, 4).” (p. 916)

That was awesome! Why can't they keep that as their conclusion, make some recommendation for increasing carbohydrates to promote lean body mass, and then go forth?

But then, after that pretty great start, their conclusion about the obesity epidemic lands on the usual beliefs that 1) some folks are genetically predisposed to obesity, and 2) there's just too darn much good food around, which makes people "spontaneously" overfeed and become obese. They write,

“Ready access to a large variety of palatable foods may circumvent normal physiological regulation of energy intake in a large segment of the population, making spontaneous overfeeding and subsequent obesity the most prevalent nutritional disease in our society. Although overfeeding inevitably produces weight gain, the rate and magnitude of weight is influenced by dietary thermogenesis. The possibility that some individuals with a genetic tendency for obesity fail to increase thermogenesis during overfeeding therefore warrants investigation.” (p. 924)

I get what they're saying. Dietary thermogenesis will help us manage that weight gain and eventually produce leaner body mass despite a perceived "overnutrition/overfeeding."

All this does, though, for me, is strengthen my understanding of 811 (and 955) ratios as being the best option for optimal weight maintenance, dietary thermogenesis, and longerm health and vitality.

Thanks so much, again, for sharing these great resources. Much appreciated!

 

 

 

Earlier in the day

Comment by Jani M on November 1, 2013 at 11:17pm

So well written -- nice to have this explained, we get so much energy from the 80-10-10 life that we often forget we need to keep eating. Thank You. 

Comment by AJ on April 14, 2013 at 4:36pm

porcedex.tumblr.com!  It's not an official blog but it's getting me started, thank you so much I am absolutely honored!!  Good luck in school :)

Comment by AJ on April 14, 2013 at 9:02am

Thank you!!  I agree with you completely, as someone who came to this lifestyle from a calorie-restricted vegan diet(still eating mostly fatty, processed junk- just not nearly enough of it) you're absolutely right.  I've never been better!  I think a database would be a great thing, too :)

Comment by Lisa Dee on April 14, 2013 at 6:06am

Fantastically written. I wish we had a handy-dandy database here for this sort of information so that it would be easy to retrieve should any member of 811 require backup during a debate - or even just for their own understanding. 

I'll tell you what I believe is a real thing and that is the set-point.  When one calorie restricts, the metabolism slows right down - when one eats normally again, one's default weight goes up about 10 lbs or so.  When every subsequent starvation or low carb diet, the same process happens so that someone can "diet" their way up to 200 lbs if they're not careful.

The only way to get the body down to the original set-point is to eat enough for long enough so that the body "forgets" the days of starvation.  This is why I get so angry when some of the raw gurus suddenly start preaching "well, make sure you don't eat too many calories now, tee hee hee".

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