30 Bananas a Day!

is it better to go on a juice or water fast first to lose the desired amount of weight?  I am obviously not eating enough.  I have actually gained back a kilo lol. 

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Comment by Rock on August 15, 2012 at 1:37pm
I do a long water only fast annually for spinal injuries and other sundry aging effects...(up to 49 days). Each year I can catalogue 30 to 50 distinct improvements in my health and comfort, virtually all beyond imagination of what I would ask or hope for.

Weight loss, or at least weight loss that will stay around longer than the number of days you fasted, is not a reality, has never been a reality, and is a fantasy. Except for those who did medical fasts, and started out at 800 pounds or more, and used medical science to avoid the rapid weight recovery. This is contrary to using raw food to do it in a healthy way. Follow the advice of Dr. Graham and the mentors endorsed within this forum...

If you lose 30 pounds of fat in 30 days (plus 8 pounds or so in water, and 10-12 pounds of fecal matter in your intestines)...the water and intestine weight loss is imaginary and will be restored as soon as you finish re-feeding, within a week. The fat loss will come back at the rate of a pound a day for the next 20 days, and then a pound every other day or so--so you will have a net loss in weight of ZERO by day 45 after your 30 day fast.

Of you are juice dieting, or juice feasting, (having juice and calling it a fast is moronic, as many fads cause people to rationalize themselves into thinking so) THEN...I would suggest that if you up your calories, and up your activity, then you should experience healthy weight loss as well as an increase in health due to doing a regimen of super nutrition. But take care, as prolonged juice diets can burden your liver and maybe kidneys if you do not dilute properly with water or study what you are doing before and during your juice experience.

Also keep in mind that if you do not consume your juice within minutes of juicing, then you may as well have it canned--as juicing exposes the enzymes to oxygen, and the enzymes with self destruct by oxidation.

Nothing is easily obtained without knowledge. Read books. The Internet can kill you with inaccurate health advice. Even the advice linked out from this site unless specifically endorsed line item by Dr. Graham.

I have several not quite completed blogs covering many of my fasts on my homepage. But I guess even then, I advise you to do what I say, not what I do-- as I have decades of experience in fasting--and still end up hurting myself as I have still not mastered the art of re-feeding--causing me weeks of agony post fast, that is easily agonizing. I find myself enjoying my fasts so much, and being in fear of the day I start eating again. But this only happens in fasts over 10-12 days--and a coach should be involved in these cases.

I may force myself to have a coach in the future for refeeding...
Comment by Jessica Deaken on August 15, 2012 at 3:49am

Hi Adam, I just posted a discussion a few minutes ago on changing my son's diet to help with his gas and adhd. I then was looking for some recipes on how to make some green lentils for him and I came across this discussion. Are all the foods you listen do you think good for him as well? And do you have any good recipes you can give me for him?! 

Comment by Adam on October 17, 2011 at 1:44am



Ps. When I said kidney stones are related to fat etc. I was meaning gall stones. Kidney stones are more related to excess protein.


Take care


Adam x

Comment by Adam on October 17, 2011 at 1:42am

Hey Diane L


I am very sorry, I just re-read what you wrote. I think my brain had a dyslexic moment there as I mixed up how it was written in my mind. I thought you said that you don't see how a sufficient cooked vegan diet would be better than an insufficient raw food diet. Hence the confusion. I do apologise there.


Yes, I believe fasting can be very useful too - for health improvements. But I only really think people should fast if they have health problems that persist after a minimum of one year eating a lfrv diet 100% consistently and changing lifestyle factors too. I don't think it should be used as a weightloss strategy.


Take care


Adam x

Comment by Rock on October 17, 2011 at 12:42am
ADAM:  Well said...
Comment by Rock on October 17, 2011 at 12:38am

It is possible to work on the joint and arthritis and back problems with Water-only fasting.   READ lots of books on water fasting (Bragg, Ehret, Sheldon, and especially Joel.  Use Joels book 10 times a day during your shorter fasts (10 days or less) and you should not need a coach.


Your back and arthritis pain will be greatly diminished within a week, and with careful diet may take 6 months or longer for the pain to return to original intensity...

Comment by Diane L on October 17, 2011 at 12:35am

Adam - I think you misunderstood what I wrote.  First of all, I specifically said if you have to care for a child you shouldn't fast.  Secondly, I suggested cooked vegan if raw vegan was too expensive.


I have mixed feelings about water fasting and don't think it is for everyone.  I think there are times when people can't do the raw diet because of their health problems and they do a water fast and then can.  I know several people who have done this successfully.  But it is like playing with fire in some ways, as people often don't take proper care of themselves afterward - and I do hear stories of people who have bad experiences as well.


I tired to go raw twice and couldn't maintain it.  I had been cooked vegan for 10 years when younger and while it started well I did develop problems during that time.  I did a 32 day water fast before my second try going raw.  I have mixed feelings about having done it.  I hear you about the starving yourself, and it was hard on me in some ways.  But I was able to maintain longer my second try at raw, and a few months later I managed this longer time of nine months currently.


I lost 35 pounds on the fast, stayed raw for two months afterward, went off for a few months and gained 20 back.  This time on raw I lost 70 in nine months while eating as much as I wanted.


The fast was easy in some ways, stressful in many others - but for me, it did help me go raw.  Maybe I could have done it another way but the first time I tried it seemed unworkable.


Doug Graham hosts fasting retreats so it seems that even he sees it benefiting at least some people at certain times.


Yet I wouldn't really push it on anyone and even feel mixed about recommending it.  It is really stressful on the body in some ways, I know.  To me if a person can't take twice the time they spend fasting to focus on recovering from it, they shouldn't even attempt it - and centers never give you that long.  So I would take the time at home to continue recovering for that time period.


I loved your other answer on this post and do think water fasting would be a bad idea for Carolyn at this time.

Comment by Adam on October 17, 2011 at 12:05am

Hey Diane L


So you think it is possible to be healthy by starving yourself? What do you suppose will happen to her health problems as her stress hormone levels increase when she has an inadequate amount of carbohydrates? What do you think will happen when her muscle protein has been broken down so significantly that her organs start to get used for fuel? What do you think will happen when all her body fat has disappeared and her body only has muscle protein left to use? I can be sure that I know what will happen...her health will fail. And that is only if she has the will power to do this, by which time she would probably be mentally ill. Most people don't have that much will power in the same way they don't have the will power to jump off a bridge. We didn't evolve to destroy ourselves by starving ourselves.


Anorexia is not a sustainable solution to health or weightloss, which seems to be what you are implying is a good idea, if we are comparing a nutrient sufficient cooked vegan diet, over a nutrient insufficient raw vegan diet because she has no money to eat.


A cooked vegan diet can be VERY healthy. Go look up any of the physicians in USA like Neal Barnard, Joel Fuhrman, Michael Klaper, Alan Goldhamer, Cauldwell Esselstyn, Dean Ornish or John Mcdougall etc. You can be certain that they are reversing conditions, including the ones Carolyn is experiencing, with a healthy cooked vegan diet.


It is all a matter of what foods are being cooked and how they are being cooked. Oil, salt, refined sugar, gluten, soy etc. are not healthy for humans. And foods cooked at high temperatures, such as over 120 Celcius are not healthy for humans. But a whole foods plant based diet that is free from all of these aforementioned dietary conditions is DEFINATELY healthy. There is no 2 ways about it. You cannot reverse advanced cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, arthritis and autoimmune diseases on diets like this and them not be healthy.


A raw food diet is optional for those who want absolutely optimal health. A lfrv diet is definately the healthiest diet in the world in my opinion. But only when it is a nutrient sufficient diet. Attempting to combine anorexia and a raw food diet will NEVER be healthier than a nutrient sufficient cooked whole foods plant based diet. It cannot be. Our body isn't a miracle machine. It cannot run without sufficient nutrients.


Take care


Adam x

Comment by Adam on October 16, 2011 at 11:55pm

Hey Carolyn


Is it possible for you to appeal against the disability decision to get more money? Have you spoken to a welfare advisor to see whether you might be entitled to any other kind of financial support. I work at an addictions centre. About 90% of my clients are on benefits of some kind. Often they are unaware of all of the benefits they are entitled to. And sometimes, when they are in receipt of them, the benefits agency will cancel their benefits following medicals. Invariably, either through appeals or all the way to tribunals, people get the benefits they need. It might seem like a hassle, but if you can get a worker to support you in this process, it will be so much easier.


Lets be clear; Your child who is allergic to wheat, soy and peanuts is doing themself and you all a favour; These foods are absolutely not healthy. It is actually more of a problem if someone isnt getting allergic reactions to them because they are then able to consume them and get all the negative health consequences as a result...only they have to wait years for this to happen. 


By eating a gluten free, soy free, peanut free, salt free, oil free, cooked vegan diet, you will get to avoid these problems. More than that, you will find that your gall stones and kidney stones will definately improve.


Kidney stones are a problem for people who have high cholesterol levels and chronically excessive fat and refined sugar intakes. By adopting a low protein, low fat, gluten free cooked vegan diet, you will see an eventual reversal of these problems.


Similarly, arthritis is a problem with four aspects; Firstly, inflammation, Secondly, poor circulation, Thirdly, excessive metabolic wastes from protein metabolism and Fourthly, dehydration. By adopting a low fat, low protein, cooked, gluten free, whole foods vegan diet, you will see a significant improvement in your symptoms. 


You are not running out of options, you are just over-stressed and unable to see how many options you have available. What is clear is that attempting to eat a raw plant based diet when you have a family to feed, health problems and restricted income is a recipe for disaster. If it was just a matter of the first two, it would be a great idea. But if your income is that restricted, all you are going to do is end up getting more starving, increasing stress hormones, which will exaccerbate your symptoms and leave you feeling hopeless, reaching for junk food to console yourself.


Your health conditions are a wake up call, not something you need to live with for the rest of your life. They are conditions created by your unhealthy living. And they are conditions that will be reversed by your healthy living choices.


To become unstuck, you need to make decision: Keep going down the road you are on, attempting to starve your way back to health and happiness. Or go back to what you were doing before and let your problems build up even more. Or adopt a sustainable healthy lifestyle that will provide you and your family with the healthy food that you all need AND allow you to improve your health and happiness in the process. It might be a compromise on what you would ultimately like to do (ie. eat a raw vegan diet) but it is still a very healthy diet.


Drink 3 litres of water per day, eat enough carbs at every meal from non-gluten grains like millet, buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth, oats, and from starchy roots like squashes, sweet potatoes and other potato varieties, and from pulses like chickpeas, lentils, pinto beans, aduki beans etc. Eat a huge portion of dark green leafy veggies like broccoli, spinach, kale, cabbages, pak choi etc per day (pile your plate high with them) at least once. Even if its just frozen if thats all you can afford or get hold of.


If you want some recipe ideas, let me know and I can send you some. I work as

Comment by Carolyn Smart on October 16, 2011 at 2:35pm
i appreciate your responses.  We are trying to live on less than $20 a day for food sometimes.  I understand eating cooked vegan is healthier than starving but I am running out of options.  I am so exhausted.  i have a child who is allergic to wheat, soy, and peanuts.  I have gall stones, kidney stones, and endplate sclerosis in my back. just a fancy word for arthritis but sometimes hurts to walk.  I applied for disability but was given a whopping $2 a week extra.  it was so insulting.  I have not been able to find work so we have to live within our means so to speak.  I am stuck...


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