My non vegan friend is preparing for a marathon and i want to recomend him what to eat before marathon and what do drink on the marathon. He wants to replace a gel that he buys from drug store with something. He is not a vegan but this might be a great oportunity to introduce him to this. Any suggestions?
Permalink Reply by Eliot W. Collins on Agave and molasses are not part of my normal diet, but during a race they are a good substitute for commercial gels. I am flexible, and this is the only instance that I use them. So far, so good.
Many of the "top sportmen" around the world race infrequently and when they do race they are only interested in winning. I race once or twice every week (and occassionaly do well in my age group). My primary goal is to finish comfortably and be ready for the next race. For example, this Saturday I have a 50K, and the next day I have a half-marathon. Again, so far, so good.
I almost forgot, I am the national champion in my age group in the 40K racewalk. As they say, "90% of success is simply showing up" (and finishing).
Permalink Reply by Eliot W. Collins on All I did was provide information about what works for me. I have been at this for a long time and so far, so good.
Eating fruit (both fresh and dried) either immediately before or during a race did not work for me. I had better results sparingly using my own "gels" made from items that I do not normally eat except during races.
At one time I would drink far more water than I really needed. For some people this causes hyponatremia (not dehydration). I experimented during my training and found out how much hydration was truly necessary for me. It was somewhat less than "what I was always told".
I have not said that what others do is wrong, nor am I criticizing their theories. I have, however, tried many routines over many years, and by experimenting, I have found out what works for me. It might work for some others as well, but unless they try it, they will never know.
Permalink Reply by Byron on Erwan,
No need to jump ugly on Eliot. You are grossly overstating what he said.
First, many people don't start a long run or race on a full stomach. I don't either. When Eliot goes 6 or 12 hours, he would prefer burning fat than carbs. What's wrong with that?
Second, maybe there is a reason why Eliot likes to use that molasses and that agave. If you have to comment, why not ask him why he does that?
Third, he didn't say, "don't drink," he said he drinks "as little as possible" and gave two very reasonable comments as to why: losing electrolytes and extra bathroom stops. If "as little as possible" doesn't resonate, let me rephrase it for you, "don't take in what you lose, take in what you can assimilate." He also told why he doesn't need to drink a whole lot: because he is well-trained.
Fourth, he took the high road and did not answer your snarky comment with another. In fact, he tried to turn you back to the "sharing" conversation with three separate humorous comments (breathing, pasta, protein and bagels) and they all went right over your head. You kept on poking him with a stick with your "top four" list and more snarky comments.
Fifth, your don't breathe comment is mean. You just wanted to make fun of him because it was easy. Could it be that he was also reminding you that he wants to try to keep his heart rate low while avoiding being mean to you in his reply?
If you don't like someone's ideas, just either let it go or give your two cents as to why you think that person could do better/feel better doing things a different way and let him/her mull it over. Be respectful. And if you can't do that, at least be civil.
Permalink Reply by Francesca on I like your response Erwan. I'm all for sharing opinions using nonviolent communication and respect. I also appreciate when we respect people for experimenting on their own, thinking independently, and learning what works for them, even if it makes absolutely no sense for ourselves. I believe this because I know how it feels to have "normal" eaters use condescending and disrespectful language towards me about my 80/10/10 diet. I think the human body is extremely adaptable for extreme conditions, such as those induced by long-distance running; training the body to run off slow energy is an interesting concept.
Inexperienced runners should be taught guidelines and not absolutes. They are entitled to know all the different avenues that experienced runners take, before making their own choice.
Permalink Reply by Byron on Hi Erwan,
I wasn't asking you not to critique Eliot's ideas, I asked you not to jump ugly with him. We're all here to share ideas, not to tease each other.
1) Personally, I would recommend pre-race eating or not eating as a personal decision that each runner should make after trying both.
2) I'd recommend staying away from processed carbs because I think they're terrible for the body. Since this entire site is geared toward healthy foods, and most people who responded have suggested healthy foods, I'm sure the OP will guide in that direction. I was surprised and curious about why Eliot mentioned/suggested these two things also, but was not curious enough to ask and didn't think that the OP--a member of 30 BaD--would go that route anyway.
3) I would recommend that a first-time marathoner find his own personal hourly fluid loss and drinking that much, adjusting as necessary during training, to find the optimal level, and drinking that much, and not as much as possible without discomfort. While I also agree completely that a person shouldn't be lacking electrolytes if eating lots of fruits and veggies, we are told by the OP that this person is not vegan, so we're not sure about his eating habits.
I don't mind at all if you give your opinion--you may have missed my point--and I don't see where I'm telling you what you should be saying. You have every right to give your opinion, and I hope you do--I hope everybody does--but I just didn't like what you described as "the harshness."
Look, you seem to know a lot about what you're saying, and that's a good thing for this site and the people on this site. I'm glad that you're here. I'm sorry if what I wrote offended you. I was only trying to ask you to turn down the harshness so we can keep as many people on here as possible. Eliot offered a combination of...less-commonly-used suggestion to one part of the OP's question (which should have been explained better) and a non-30 BaD-approved suggestion to the other (which I would not agree with either). I just thought the harshness was not needed. That's all.
Permalink Reply by Byron on James, I'm with you regarding the molasses and agave. Blackstrap molasses used to be touted as a great thing to bring on a run way before there were such things as gels. It used to be molasses, Karo syrup, and honey were the bomb. Honey is still used often (Honey Stinger), more so than molasses (which is still recommended by non-vegetarians), and Karo syrup.
Regarding the drinking thing, though, all Eliot said was that he drinks "as little as possible." I read this as meaning that he drinks according to what he needs and doesn't "pound the fluids" regardless of need. I thought he meant that had plotted out how much he uses during a typical marathon--like all of the nutritionists recommend doing--and takes in basically that much, and does not go overboard, not that he purposely takes in less than he needs. I think your introduction of "adequate" is your bad.
Permalink Reply by James bananaman Bailey on thats all very good, however to give advise to someone who is inexperienced and looking for help/ideas from others, to drink as little as possible could very well work out to be some what dangerous, no? it was then later redefined as, having used to drink alot, then over the years altering the levels to what i found suited me, (i think it was more or less said that). which is, i think very dif advise to offer and largely very good. even though i personaly dont agree with his end conclution, (which doesnt really matter..i don't need to and nor does he need me to! :) i do very much agree with how he came to it; to air on the side of caution, then adjust until he found what he thinks/feels works best for him. an exercise dairy is perfect for this. in terms of electrolytes, i'll have celery and cucumber, ether whole or juiced, for cals dates and maybe the odd banana. i havn't yet tried making a 'glue' as of yet as i haven't felt the need. if i were to id probs use the same foods as above to do so.
we can all interpret ppls words, (even more so in type) as we see fit. however leaving gaps that could very easily lead to dangerous situations like dehydration to personal interpretation which is greatly dependent on experience of the subject at hand, which is the whole point the question in the first place is careless. a point at which i thought best to draw attention to for everybodies sake...becasuse it wouldn't be my bad, (i can always eat/drink) it would be some other poor fools!
Permalink Reply by Byron on Hi James,
"Well said" is right. Eliot should definitely have explained what he meant by "as little as possible" in his original post. I like how you wrote that you liked how he came to his conclusion. I'm with you on that, too.
Yes, it does very much depend on the person. I agree with you there, too. It is really up to the OP's friend to find the optimal level for water and calories--and the right shoe + sock combo, and the right pace, etc.
Permalink Reply by Byron on Hi Elena, I like making a thick gel of dates and bananas and just enough water to make it pour out well. It can be refrigerated overnight for a warm weather race if need be. I carry it in a water bottle, drinking it just before the water stations and chasing it down with plain water. Easy and fast to make, easy to drink, tastes great, and as many calories as he needs. Depending on their sizes, maybe one banana and two dates per hour would work well.
Permalink Reply by Francesca on Honey+maca+spirulina+sheep's oil+ground coffee. Process it into a paste.
Just kidding! Totally disgusting.
Date paste! I really like tamarind, a fruit from the pea plant. It has a lovely flavor and similar texture to dates. You can process or blend them together. Tasty and similar to Mexican tamarind candy, which I used to like a lot. You can make it a similar texture to GU.
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