Hi all, so eleven months ago I rediscovered my health and discovered natural hygiene and LFRV. I starting to thrive and ran a lot, trained like my life depended on it for three to four times a week, started 10, 15, 21, 30km runs and enlisted for my first full marathon in Rotterdam.
In October 2011 I started getting pains in my knee when going faster then 12km/u, so I started limiting my speeds because of a 15km race on 11 December. Since I had troubles with my running shoes the first month I bought them I wanted to wait until after 11 December to buy new ones (big mistake).
So about 10 December I went to my specialist running shoe shop, to buy some new ones, and found out my current shoes where totally wear-out, not that old, but more then 800km's on them, and my foot pronation was totally off... I have been running in a bad posture for months and developed runners knee's. I did my last 15km race in 1h12m on 11 December and one more run a week later that was painful on >10km/u.
So I stopped running after that 17 dec. to heal my knees. It is now 23 jan. and I am having knee pains in normal daily activities and I can't even run 1000m without getting a pain shot running trough my knees, making me crash. I replaced all my running activities, with bootcamps, P90X workouts and yoga to try strengthen my muscles. (which seem to work)
I was doing so well and felt so good during my runs, and I miss it so much. I kind of felt like a super version of myself on LVRV and did not see a physiotherapist (going to see one tomorrow). I am a cheap bastard when it comes to doctors and therapist, I rather buy lots of fruits and vegetables and get some extra sleep.
So I got the following runs planed: 11 March 21.1km CPC The Hague (City-Pier-City) and 15 April 42.2km Marathon Rotterdam. Is it realistic to hope I can still run them? I feel like such a wreck right now... How long is it suppose to take to heal... :(
Some more information about my diet: in the first five month's or so I seem to been on a starvation diet, (2000 to 2500cals) I just didn't know any better and was feeling good (but had cravings I suppressed). After that I slowly went to 2500 to 3500cals a day. I eat 500gr to 1000gr vegetables almost everyday, and eat little nuts and seeds (few handfuls a week). (90/5/5). I also eat steamed vegetables and sometimes potatoes and whole grains (are steamed vegetables toxic?). There have been about then days in the last 11 months I haven’t been LFRV due to social events, making me uncomfortable eating LFRV. When I started I probably was overweight (don’t own a scale) but I should be fine now (186cm, +/-83kg, 6%BF athletic measurement) last time I got it checked at the gym (few months back) should be even better know). (depending on what not running does to my body...)
What are your experiences with healing runner's knee injuries? I can use any tips and tricks....
Description of the knee pains: It is mostly the left knee left (outer) down side. When I first felt it and slowed down my running it went away immediately. (that’s how I could run for more then a month with it, by slowing down my speeds). It developed in a more shooting pain that I feel now, It feels like my knee get locked then a pain shot, I start hiking on one leg or sit down until I can move the knee/leg freely again without pain. This happened to me last week when walking my boxes of fruit indoors, and the week before that doing forward lunges, it also sometimes just happens when moving around.
Hey Dennis --
I've had a good bit of knee trouble in the past--as well as other injuries from running. Could you be a bit more specific about the pain-where is it located (behind the kneecap, on the side, etc.)?
Added an update to the main thread, is it specific enough?
sorry to hear that!
The knee pains you describe in your updates sound pretty much like my knee pains. A few months ago I had a cruciate ligament rupture and surgery... the doctors recently found ganglions in my knee. so I'm not sure if my pain comes from the surgery or the ganglions. sorry if this doesn't really help.
however, you might want to exclude grains completely from your diet. have you read Doug's opinion on grains? also, I recently read "Dangerous Grains" which was really interesting (if you skip the few pages where they recommend animal eating).
Whoa that doesn't sound nice... how long will recovery take? I will probably recommend other exercise you like doing for a longer period that won't involve the legs a lot.
For the grain parts, I agree, they make the body acidic and are meant for birds, not humans. I maybe get 500 grams per month of pseudograins. (probably causes by cravings, and I did't want to throughout the buckwheat, quinoa and amaranth).
A tight ITB (that's the strip of connective tissue connecting your hip to your lower leg) can definitely cause pain on the outer aspect of the knee. This area is notoriously tight among runners. In fact, I haven't met a runner without tightness there. The best way and really only way I know to loosen it up is foam rolling (you can google a bunch of videos for this). A friend of mine with serious ITB in 2008 rested and stretched it well for a couple of months and since then he's back to running ultras (including the HURT 100miler) every year.
Long distance runners also typically have weak glutes (see article below for more info- and ideas for strength training and rehab).
Of course, the ITB may not be the issue and I know you don't want to see a Doc, but I think it would really help to talk with a sports specialist who works with a lot of runners to get a handle on what's going on.
Over the years I've learned that it pays to be flexible with training, resting a bit and canceling a race this spring could lead to many years of running to come vs. chronic injury-and I had to learn that the hard way. Above all listen to you body :) It knows best!!!
Just my 2 cents :)
I have been doing weekly yoga sessions for five weeks now (I think I am hooked, since I was pleasantly surprised) I will get a foam roller, (heard some things about it and saw some P90X2 sessions with them). I am going to see a physiotherapist tomorrow... I am not very good at listing to my body :) I can mentally push it until it breaks, I also have trouble giving up... (one of the reasons of this thread).
Sounds like a good plan Dennis--and I totally understand about not wanting to give up--and it's a good idea to communicate that to your therapist :) Glad to hear you are trying to mix up the routine!!
Please keep us posted.
Hello :) Sad to hear about your runner injuries. I haven't had runner's knee before, but I've had other injuries and currently have one. I agree with what others have been saying, but also I would like to add that those two races you mention are too soon for you to consider running them. You won't have enough time to heal and then properly train for both of them. When I got injured on Nov 11th I still had signed up for two races in mid December thinking I would be okay. It really stressed me out because I wasn't healing quickly enough and I had wasted my entry money on them! Bottom line, don't sign up for races when you are injured :). Just look at your running career as a lifelong endeavor and don't jeopardize it by trying to run too soon when healing from an injury. Take it slow and you'll reap the benefits of recovery, rest, and strength you'll gain doing other activity. A lot of runners I know always come back stronger than ever after having rested for a long time (depending on severity) from a running injury. Best of luck!
I had my visits with a physiotherapist for my physical therapy diagnosis today (it was rescheduled). What a waste of money, I could have bought a week worth of fruit for it. (fruit are my new unit of exchange :) )
<rant>After the therapist did my intake and all my insurances where checked and he concluded I had to pay for it myself because my health insurance didn't cover the diagnosis. I agree with this, but the basic health insurance fee is pretty high here in the Netherlands (100 Euro per month), because a lot of unhealthy people and an extreme inefficient and expensive care system.</rant>
He did some pulling and pushing on my legs and knees and there was a computerised leg press test to see what my strength in each leg was. Conclusion that my knee was probably over-trained and my right leg is 10% to 20% stronger then my bad left one on this moment and I had to work on that.
No excersises where given, but I could continue with the excersises I was aready doing (P90X and yoga workouts). He did not know what foam rolling was.... (it was a therapist specialised in sports...) I should keep doing this for the next four weeks, and don't run in that time, after that I should start training again and see how it goes. So maybe the Marathon is still possible, he did not recommend against it...
Wow, I really feel for your Dennis!! I don't know what it's like in the Netherlands- but I feel there has to be somebody there who deals with runners on a regular basis!! I go to the University Sports Medicine Clinic @ the University of Colorado, Denver and they see this kind of thing all the time. Maybe you can talk to the members of the local running club? If you can't find someone yourself, I would look into contacting a specialist in the U.S. via internet who may be able to point you in the right direction. I was recently listening to an interview with Eric Orton (the trainer featured in the book Born to Run who helped the author Chris McDougal run again). Eric seems like a very knowledgable and well connected guy. Here's is website:
You may not have the $$$ for a consult, but you could always try to email him--and I'll bet he'll have some more ideas for you.
Above all, listen to your body and it will let you know what it needs.
Let us know how things progress,
I use kinesiology tape for everything. You can search out videos on "You Tube" There are three major brands: Kinesio-Tex, K-Tape and Rock Tape. The last two have websites and links to some "how to" videos. And you can always do a point of "pain taping" it works great on ITB issues.
Hi JCAZZ, thank you. I am going to try the taping. I bought:
I am very sceptical against these forms of tools to prevent/heal injuries, I always believe the body muscle should be able to hold the bones in place by them self and increasing the point of failure by tricks can lead to bad things. But what the heck I am already there so I could at leased try it for recovery.