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Christian or Disciple of the Messiah

Started by Ryan07. Last reply by Ryan Dixon yesterday. 5 Replies

I feel ashamed to call myself a Christian. Not just for the Christians around the world also for my sinful self. The Messiah was opposed to organized religion. Mostly. Everyone says Christ. or Jesus.…Continue

God/Goddess Him/Her Father/Mother

Started by Mari. Last reply by Sephtan Mar 7. 23 Replies

Hi all,So I've been getting deeper into my faith and I am starting to feel more and more content with where I am right now (coming from depression and anxiety), and I am so thankful to Jesus for…Continue

Reading through the entire Bible

Started by Gordon Lindberg. Last reply by Bethany Mar 4. 3 Replies

Hi all,I've been munching through my beloved KJV for the 15th time recently and I was just reflecting on how much a blessing it has been to read through the entire bible. The person that led me to…Continue

89/10/10 from the standpoint of a Creationist

Started by Ryan07. Last reply by Gordon Lindberg Feb 27. 6 Replies

When I first got into 801010 years ago I bought into evolution and so used that in my mind as a valid argument for the diet. Now I think evolution is a pile of complete bologna and believe in…Continue

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Comment by Gordon Lindberg on Friday

Wow... I don't think I'm going to get through to you, but I'm happy to post a reply for the sake of the other Christians looking.

So you don't believe in the trinity, then is Jesus Christ God or just a created being like the JW's teach? There are a multitude of verses about the trinity, I'll give you a sample: Genesis 1:26, John 1:1 John 10:30, John 8:58, matthew 28:19, hebrews 1:3, titus 2:13, colossians 2:9, Isaiah 44:6 - Revelation 1:8, 1:17-18That should be enough, you can msg me if you want more.

About the rapture... so you think there is no rapture at all??? its a bit bizarre. Not too sure how your going to get around this verse: 1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rapture comes from the latin word rapto; to seize with force. its describing this catching up.

I agree that a lot of Church's are lazy, Baptists are included. But in reference to salvation...its always been easy for a Christian as Jesus did all the work. It's funny that you can't see how you are contradicting yourself. You say on one hand salvation is by grace through faith and I'm not adding works, then on the other hand: well if you don't do good works you won't be able to make it to heaven.

Some people in the Bible have to do works as part of their salvation, OT Jews & tribulation saints etc. But the Christian definitely does not! Our salvation is not the same as Adam and Eve LOL!!! All Adam had to do was NOT eat a certain fruit, we have to believe on Jesus Christ, how is this the same...

Look I know where your getting this "we are israel thing"

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This is talking about the SPIRITUAL blessings that came through Abraham, but this does not negate that God promised a certain stretch of Land to Abraham's physical SEED which is Israel - Jewish people.

Look I'm not saying that we SHOULDN'T keep God's commandments, obviously we should! The big question is though: Do we have to keep commandments (works) in order to be saved, go to heaven?

The answer from Romans, Galatians, Ephesians etc (all the CHURCH LETTERS) is absolutely not. In fact if you think that you do; your preaching a FALSE GOSPEL and are probably not saved.

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Comment by Ryan Dixon on Friday

John 14:15 If ye love mekeep my commandments.

proverbs 4:4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain mywords: keep my commandments, and live.

psalm 119:115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.

Remember dear one, it is not a sin to believe God's word, but it is one to preach man made dogma as it is his. I will keep you in prayer as well as all that may see your words. Take care

Comment by Ryan Dixon on Friday

First thing, the dogma of rapture and trinity are not in scripture, that is why those words can't be found in it. 

So you believe its okay to steal, lie, murder, covet etc? I understand the a laziness of the baptist faith as well as professed Christianity as a whole today.

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Second you glossed right on over the many verses I gave as us being judged according to our works.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.  Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Obedience is key to all of this....

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these leastcommandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called theleast in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach themthe same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Again we are present day Israel, the obedient commandment keeping Christian, I think you confuse me showing bible truths, with thinking  I must work for salvation. This is a common defense for most, but I never said that, just repeated the words of our Lord.  There are so many bible verses in context that show we must be obedient or we will not be allowed in heaven, the same reason why Adam and Eve where kicked out of the garden... remember... If you Love Jesus you will obey Him, it is that simple. cont

Comment by Gordon Lindberg on Wednesday

Sorry for the long wait in this reply,

Well the book of James says that you DO have to work for salvation, its also addressed to the JEWS, in the last days (tribulation), read James 1:1. What I mean by rightly dividing is understand which group of people the bible is addressing in certain passages, is it to the Jews, the gentiles or the Church?

Notice James ch2 states that Abraham WAS justified by works! whereas Romans 5:1 states point blank that we are justified by faith.

being approved of God in 2Tim2:15 is obviously not referring to salvation, I'm not sure why you are conflating the two. YES NT salvation is extremely lazy! The Christian is letting Jesus Christ do everything in regards to his salvation. Being saved & staying saved. 0% works involved. I'm putting 100% of my faith in Jesus Christ to save my soul and 0% in myself, my works, my religion, my life etc.

If your not sure about this then you need to question who you are really trusting to get you to heaven... if your works / keeping commandments are playing a part, then I encourage you to read the book of Galatians. For e.g Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Of course the word rapture is not in the Bible, but its in reference to the doctrine. It's the same as the word trinity, the word isn't in the Bible but the doctrine is. Read 1Cor 15:42-58 for the Rapture of the body of Christ.

In regards to your last point... this is a bit silly really. God made an unconditional promise to Abraham, it cannot be revoked. While a Gentile can "get in" on some of the blessings that come through Abraham because Israel rejected Christ, we do not replace the tree that we are grafted into. Read Romans 11. There is neither Jew nor Gentile IN CHRIST, but there will come a time when the Church is taken away and the Jew comes back in.

You can see this in type in the book of Esther where Vashti is taken away (Gentile bride) and Esther is brought in (Jewish Bride).

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to insult you but I think the Bible is pretty clear on these matters. Regards, Gordon.

Comment by Ryan Dixon on April 9, 2014 at 8:46am

@ Gordon Lindberg....... I have "rightly divided" the word of God, if not show us the error. I think we both understand the difference between the law of Moses and the law of God. The ten commandments are just that a commandment to us "all of us' that profess to follow Him.  The book of James is very clear my friend, no one said we must work for salvation. Obedience is the fruit of faith as well as letting Jesus Christ "Lord" over us.  Revelation 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city". Clearly Christ is telling us a different story , and the beloved apostle John 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Also 2 Timothy  2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So we need to study to show ourself approved? I thought we could be lazy and God will do it all for us? We have a part to do. We have to accept the gift.... Also, I have read before that you have read the bible many times, I have never seen the word rapture in the bible, do you mine posting the verse it is in.

Second if we profess to follow Christ and keep His commandments, we are now Israel.

The Jews are not Gods chosen people, for they don't believe in His Son.

Comment by Ryan Dixon on April 9, 2014 at 8:29am

And finally, Galatians 3:26-29 says, "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

It was believed by physical Israel that to be Israel was a birthright and beyond the grasp of all those outside their camp. Yet here we see Paul clearly stating that all that claim Christ Lord are of Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. Paul tells them it doesn’t matter if you’re a Jew or a Greek, bond or free, or even male or female. He was explicit so as to erase all doubt regarding the age old tradition brought on by the Pharisees regarding their assumed God given heavenly ethnicity. Paul plainly says if you follow CHRIST, then you are of Abraham’s seed. According to the Pharisee of old, to be of Abraham’s seed simply means you are ISRAEL.

Comment by Ryan Dixon on April 9, 2014 at 8:29am

Acts 13:46 we find the prophecy regarding having the Kingdom of God taken from “physical Israel” straightforwardly fulfilled when Paul and Barnabas are being ridiculed and reproached by the Jews one day with blasphemous statements as they try to share the Gospel message. So on that fateful day, Paul and Barnabas turned to the Jews that were speaking out and said, “…It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.”

In Romans 2:28,29 we learn that, “…he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. “

A few chapters later in Romans 9:6-8 it says that, “…they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

In other words, you are not guaranteed Heaven simply because you are born into a Jewish family. Peering into this reality at its base elements, a family is nothing more than a flesh generated unit. It is not a spiritual entity claiming spiritual things. It’s just a family name. As Christians we know that the “flesh” has no claim on Christ, nor can it ever lay claim because John 4:24 says "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." (Romans 8:5) "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." (Galatians 5:17) Only those that understand, profess, and believe the promise can be called heirs and citizens of Israel. Galatians 3:29 says that “if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” What is this promise you ask? Galatians 3:14 says, "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."


Comment by Ryan Dixon on April 9, 2014 at 8:18am

Amen Sephtan lets continue to speak and grow in Christ together, I think the foundation is the same between us.

Comment by Gordon Lindberg on April 6, 2014 at 8:14pm

@Ryan Dixon & @Sephtan

What ya need to do is: "rightly divide the word of God" 2 Tim 2:15

The law of God i.e the Pentateuch was not written to a Christian doctrinally. It was written to the Jews, while some of the commandments cross over, many don't. For instance wearing garments of mingled fabrics, plowing with an Ox & a donkey, freeing bondmen during the jubilee, keeping certain feasts, the sabbath etc you get the point.

The Jews had to keep the law as a part of their salvation. They had to do faith + works, as it says in James ch2. But notice who the epistle of James is addressed to in James 1:1 to the twelve tribes scattered abroad.

"Christian perfection" while I admire your zeal to sin less its ovbious that you will never be perfect in the flesh. In fact 1john ch1 says that if you say you are without sin that your a liar!

The most spirit filled Christian I can think of in the History of the NT church; the apostle paul stated emphatically that he had a carnal nature & sinned constantly! read Romans 6&7. He described his body as the "old man" that he lived in which was constantly leading him to sin. When you get saved you don't get a resurrected spiritual body that's sinless straight away, you get that after the rapture or when you die.

The sticking point here is though that if you believe that you need works to earn salvation or to stay saved; then your preaching a false gospel. Read Galatians ch1. Salvation is 100% free and its forever. That's why the bible calls it everlasting life, because it lasts forever. read Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast.

If you have to keep commandments to stay saved then that is still works salvation. I thank God for his grace.

Comment by Sephtan on April 6, 2014 at 4:35am

@Ryan Dixon

It might just be that we are talking past each other. From some things you write I am not sure if we might even mean the same thing, or at least only differ slightly. I too believe that we should strive for perfection, that we should try to keep the law the best we can, under the guidance of Jesus, under His holy and loving Grace. It is not even that I do not believe that we can absolutely not reach that perfection within our life time, I just think it is unlikely, for at least the very most people.

I guess the question is, if you believe that being perfect is a necessity to go to heaven or "just" something we should strive for?

I just try to be as open and honest as I can, which is even part of my striving for perfection, as it makes it easier for others to correct me if I am wrong. By the way, I do not think that all you do is posting scripture, it just seems a lot of scripture with comparatively little explanation to it in some of your comments. I also do not intend to offend and should it happen, it was because of my lack of communication skills, please view statements from me who had that effect with a merciful eye and try to see my attempts for a better mutual understanding behind them.

The formatting you used for scripture this time was much better to read, thanks.

I am grateful to and for anyone who prays for me, so much greater thanks for that.


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