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Discussion Forum

Christian or Disciple of the Messiah

Started by Ryan07. Last reply by Ryan07 9 hours ago. 4 Replies

I feel ashamed to call myself a Christian. Not just for the Christians around the world also for my sinful self. The Messiah was opposed to organized religion. Mostly. Everyone says Christ. or Jesus.…Continue

God/Goddess Him/Her Father/Mother

Started by Mari. Last reply by Sephtan Mar 7. 23 Replies

Hi all,So I've been getting deeper into my faith and I am starting to feel more and more content with where I am right now (coming from depression and anxiety), and I am so thankful to Jesus for…Continue

Reading through the entire Bible

Started by Gordon Lindberg. Last reply by Bethany Mar 4. 3 Replies

Hi all,I've been munching through my beloved KJV for the 15th time recently and I was just reflecting on how much a blessing it has been to read through the entire bible. The person that led me to…Continue

89/10/10 from the standpoint of a Creationist

Started by Ryan07. Last reply by Gordon Lindberg Feb 27. 6 Replies

When I first got into 801010 years ago I bought into evolution and so used that in my mind as a valid argument for the diet. Now I think evolution is a pile of complete bologna and believe in…Continue

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Comment by Gordon Johnson 19 hours ago

how do you express your faith? Do you eat Christs body and drink his blood once a week or do you do it every meal/every time you eat? faith means what? trust is certainly a great word. Christs body is real food and his blood is real drink when he is a spirit. in revelations when he is spirit and describes himself, he is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. we need to look there for our food and drink. tree of life is just a category of food. like your family tree is just a list of family members

Comment by Joseph Glover 22 hours ago

 "...The big question is though: Do we have to keep commandments (works) in order to be saved, go to heaven? The answer from Romans, Galatians, Ephesians etc (all the CHURCH LETTERS) is absolutely not..." -Gordon Lindberg


 We all know that we are saved by grace through trusting in Adonai's one and only son, but if we are truly known by his name and restored to his image then we would strive to perfect righteousness; for if we disregard the ways of the spirit then how can we be his?

 Grace came to us as a gift, our transformation shows that we have received it; you are not saved by your works, your works are proof of your salvation.

Comment by Gordon Lindberg yesterday

BTW, Revelation 22:14 is talking about People living on Earth during the millennium... obviously its not Christians because we are ALREADY IN the city of new Jerusalem!!

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

So will people need Faith to be saved in the Millennium when they can LITERALLY SEE God reigning from his Throne of David in Jerusalem?? no It will be 100% works required = keep the commandments.

Will there be an Atheist in the Millennium?? of course not Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

I hope that makes sense. It was this very argument that sparked the reformation. Catholics saying that Christians had to not only have faith in Christ but also keep commandments to be saved (works) + some funky traditions as well. The Reformers refused to agree and contended that Faith alone brings salvation. It was because of men like Martin Luther and William Tyndale who were hunted down like criminals, that we even have a bible in the common tongue today, let alone the precious gospel of Faith alone in Christ for salvation.

Comment by Gordon Lindberg yesterday

Wow... I don't think I'm going to get through to you, but I'm happy to post a reply for the sake of the other Christians looking.

So you don't believe in the trinity, then is Jesus Christ God or just a created being like the JW's teach? There are a multitude of verses about the trinity, I'll give you a sample: Genesis 1:26, John 1:1 John 10:30, John 8:58, matthew 28:19, hebrews 1:3, titus 2:13, colossians 2:9, Isaiah 44:6 - Revelation 1:8, 1:17-18That should be enough, you can msg me if you want more.

About the rapture... so you think there is no rapture at all??? its a bit bizarre. Not too sure how your going to get around this verse: 1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rapture comes from the latin word rapto; to seize with force. its describing this catching up.

I agree that a lot of Church's are lazy, Baptists are included. But in reference to salvation...its always been easy for a Christian as Jesus did all the work. It's funny that you can't see how you are contradicting yourself. You say on one hand salvation is by grace through faith and I'm not adding works, then on the other hand: well if you don't do good works you won't be able to make it to heaven.

Some people in the Bible have to do works as part of their salvation, OT Jews & tribulation saints etc. But the Christian definitely does not! Our salvation is not the same as Adam and Eve LOL!!! All Adam had to do was NOT eat a certain fruit, we have to believe on Jesus Christ, how is this the same...

Look I know where your getting this "we are israel thing"

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This is talking about the SPIRITUAL blessings that came through Abraham, but this does not negate that God promised a certain stretch of Land to Abraham's physical SEED which is Israel - Jewish people.

Look I'm not saying that we SHOULDN'T keep God's commandments, obviously we should! The big question is though: Do we have to keep commandments (works) in order to be saved, go to heaven?

The answer from Romans, Galatians, Ephesians etc (all the CHURCH LETTERS) is absolutely not. In fact if you think that you do; your preaching a FALSE GOSPEL and are probably not saved.

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Comment by Ryan Dixon yesterday

John 14:15 If ye love mekeep my commandments.

proverbs 4:4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain mywords: keep my commandments, and live.

psalm 119:115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.

Remember dear one, it is not a sin to believe God's word, but it is one to preach man made dogma as it is his. I will keep you in prayer as well as all that may see your words. Take care

Comment by Ryan Dixon yesterday

First thing, the dogma of rapture and trinity are not in scripture, that is why those words can't be found in it. 

So you believe its okay to steal, lie, murder, covet etc? I understand the a laziness of the baptist faith as well as professed Christianity as a whole today.

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Second you glossed right on over the many verses I gave as us being judged according to our works.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.  Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Obedience is key to all of this....

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these leastcommandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called theleast in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach themthe same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Again we are present day Israel, the obedient commandment keeping Christian, I think you confuse me showing bible truths, with thinking  I must work for salvation. This is a common defense for most, but I never said that, just repeated the words of our Lord.  There are so many bible verses in context that show we must be obedient or we will not be allowed in heaven, the same reason why Adam and Eve where kicked out of the garden... remember... If you Love Jesus you will obey Him, it is that simple. cont

Comment by Gordon Lindberg on Wednesday

Sorry for the long wait in this reply,

Well the book of James says that you DO have to work for salvation, its also addressed to the JEWS, in the last days (tribulation), read James 1:1. What I mean by rightly dividing is understand which group of people the bible is addressing in certain passages, is it to the Jews, the gentiles or the Church?

Notice James ch2 states that Abraham WAS justified by works! whereas Romans 5:1 states point blank that we are justified by faith.

being approved of God in 2Tim2:15 is obviously not referring to salvation, I'm not sure why you are conflating the two. YES NT salvation is extremely lazy! The Christian is letting Jesus Christ do everything in regards to his salvation. Being saved & staying saved. 0% works involved. I'm putting 100% of my faith in Jesus Christ to save my soul and 0% in myself, my works, my religion, my life etc.

If your not sure about this then you need to question who you are really trusting to get you to heaven... if your works / keeping commandments are playing a part, then I encourage you to read the book of Galatians. For e.g Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Of course the word rapture is not in the Bible, but its in reference to the doctrine. It's the same as the word trinity, the word isn't in the Bible but the doctrine is. Read 1Cor 15:42-58 for the Rapture of the body of Christ.

In regards to your last point... this is a bit silly really. God made an unconditional promise to Abraham, it cannot be revoked. While a Gentile can "get in" on some of the blessings that come through Abraham because Israel rejected Christ, we do not replace the tree that we are grafted into. Read Romans 11. There is neither Jew nor Gentile IN CHRIST, but there will come a time when the Church is taken away and the Jew comes back in.

You can see this in type in the book of Esther where Vashti is taken away (Gentile bride) and Esther is brought in (Jewish Bride).

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to insult you but I think the Bible is pretty clear on these matters. Regards, Gordon.

Comment by Ryan Dixon on April 9, 2014 at 8:46am

@ Gordon Lindberg....... I have "rightly divided" the word of God, if not show us the error. I think we both understand the difference between the law of Moses and the law of God. The ten commandments are just that a commandment to us "all of us' that profess to follow Him.  The book of James is very clear my friend, no one said we must work for salvation. Obedience is the fruit of faith as well as letting Jesus Christ "Lord" over us.  Revelation 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city". Clearly Christ is telling us a different story , and the beloved apostle John 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Also 2 Timothy  2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So we need to study to show ourself approved? I thought we could be lazy and God will do it all for us? We have a part to do. We have to accept the gift.... Also, I have read before that you have read the bible many times, I have never seen the word rapture in the bible, do you mine posting the verse it is in.

Second if we profess to follow Christ and keep His commandments, we are now Israel.

The Jews are not Gods chosen people, for they don't believe in His Son.

Comment by Ryan Dixon on April 9, 2014 at 8:29am

And finally, Galatians 3:26-29 says, "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

It was believed by physical Israel that to be Israel was a birthright and beyond the grasp of all those outside their camp. Yet here we see Paul clearly stating that all that claim Christ Lord are of Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. Paul tells them it doesn’t matter if you’re a Jew or a Greek, bond or free, or even male or female. He was explicit so as to erase all doubt regarding the age old tradition brought on by the Pharisees regarding their assumed God given heavenly ethnicity. Paul plainly says if you follow CHRIST, then you are of Abraham’s seed. According to the Pharisee of old, to be of Abraham’s seed simply means you are ISRAEL.

Comment by Ryan Dixon on April 9, 2014 at 8:29am

Acts 13:46 we find the prophecy regarding having the Kingdom of God taken from “physical Israel” straightforwardly fulfilled when Paul and Barnabas are being ridiculed and reproached by the Jews one day with blasphemous statements as they try to share the Gospel message. So on that fateful day, Paul and Barnabas turned to the Jews that were speaking out and said, “…It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.”

In Romans 2:28,29 we learn that, “…he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. “

A few chapters later in Romans 9:6-8 it says that, “…they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

In other words, you are not guaranteed Heaven simply because you are born into a Jewish family. Peering into this reality at its base elements, a family is nothing more than a flesh generated unit. It is not a spiritual entity claiming spiritual things. It’s just a family name. As Christians we know that the “flesh” has no claim on Christ, nor can it ever lay claim because John 4:24 says "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." (Romans 8:5) "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." (Galatians 5:17) Only those that understand, profess, and believe the promise can be called heirs and citizens of Israel. Galatians 3:29 says that “if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” What is this promise you ask? Galatians 3:14 says, "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."



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