Hi there, if anyone can help with this it would be appreciated.
I have been eating raw 80 10 10 for only 12 days. On day 8 I started getting the worst pain in the ball on my right foot and my big toe. It has gotten steadily worse and now I am limping and the foot is swollen. I saw a naturopath friend of mine she said it is prob some kind of toxins and advised me to eat cooked food and stick my legs up against the wall. Anyone heard of this? Is this Gout?
There is nothing like this mentioned in detox symptoms in Doug Graham 80 10 10 book.
This sounds exactly like gout! I had it and it was so awful, especially since I live on a horse farm and have to walk all over the place! Gout is triggered/caused by high levels of uric acid which starts to crystallize out of solution in joints, typically the big toe. Attacks can be triggered by loosing weight. But... getting to a healthy weight is one of the things that is gout preventative! LOL! Damned if you do, damned if you don't!
I was very overweight, so any gout attack on the way down was worth it. Once I stabilized at a good weight, I didn't have any more attacks. There are different reasons for having an attack, could be that like me, a person is overweight and just too much junk on board that the body has to process. Also, some people don't have as good of a kidney function and the Uric acid builds up, or other reasons. Stay well hydrated! If you tend to not drink as much water, this could also really help you with gout.
I found, at that time, taking 800 mg of ibuprofen 4 times a day kept me able to walk although not without some discomfort. That's a LOT of medication! Not good for the body either. Later I got on some terrible (since have learned that it can really wreak havoc) medication my doctor gave me that really seemed to work for me after a day or two. I forget what it was called, but was basically a stronger anti-inflammatory. Luckily I haven't had such a bad attack since going LFRV, but I have read more about it and about foods that tend to raise uric acid levels and one of those is spinach. I love spinach! But that is good to know, so I rotate my greens more now.
Also, Cherries and cranberries are supposed to help with gout. I've had a couple minor gout attacks in the last few years, when I strayed off diet and started eating more fatty and cooked foods. I'm not sure, but it seems that maybe my body gives me these types of signals a little earlier than it did before, when I was totally snowed under with high fat, processed and cooked food.
I really would not recommend eating cooked food to ease gout, at least not high fat cooked, since that seemed to trigger gout for me. Definitely do not stray into meat, even the so-called healthy meats, turkey, etc can really trigger an attack. For me, eating cheese and beans seemed to trigger my small attacks.
I would recommend eating cherries, and cutting down on foods that can trigger attacks. Here are just a few articles on gout and natural treatment of it. Keep in mind that many natural treatments are against what we follow on the LFRV, and since we sort of spring from natural hygiene philosophy, medicine would definitely be off-diet.
In the end you need to do what you need to do to get past the attack. I hope you can do it while still sticking to the types of guidelines as found here, but even if you cannot, don't give up! You can do this :) This is just a bump in the road, albeit a VERY painful one! Do keep in mind the foods that are more or less on-diet that can tend to increase purines/increase chance of gout attack:
There are some conflicting opinions, some say that these foods are OK in the diet but that the fat is the main factor. But there are so many yummy fruits and greens that are not high in purines, I'd recommend eating them and only gradually, if at all, reintroducing any chance-y foods to your diet AFTER you're past this attack.
In the meantime, keep your foot elevated and I found that putting ice on my foot for 20 minutes at a time gave me some relief. When/if you must wear shoes, wear some big ones that fit loosely! Crocs were my go to, nasty looking things, but they didn't hurt my foot like trying to squeeze into my office shoes!
I'm so sorry you are having this right now, I know it hurts like crazy. Hang in there, it will NOT last forever!
Be sure to stay well hydrated (yes I AM saying this a second time, LOL!) and get lots of calories! If you are loosing weight and need to slow it, go ahead, but do it with more bananas/dates instead of cooked. Also, keep moving as much as possible. I know all too well, how painful your foot probably is, but if you can do anything to keep your blood moving, do it, maybe some ab work, pushups (with the bad foot resting on the back of the good foot ankle of course!) etc. As the pain/swelling subside, you can move more and more.
Do a search on here for gout, there may be some past threads with helpful information for you. Hang in there! I know it may be small comfort to you right now, especially since this was triggered in you post going LFRV, but you are on the right path! I'd stay clear of fruit juices from a bottle, straying with soda, eating high fat and definitely not any meat!
I can't thank you enough for your reply!!
I really want this to work. I have lost 2kgs in the last 2 weeks, so may have been the trigger. I did end up eating cooked tonight but it was not high fat and was still vegan. Have been reading some medical references on the internet and I am sure it is gout now. But I will keep going and drink more water!! Mmm, yes what shoes to wear tomorrow. So glad I have not told many people in the office what I am doing yet, I wouldn't want them to get put off 80 10 10.
Thanks again you have given me hope when I was thinking it might be time to drop the whole thing.
So glad I saw your post! I've been away from a lot of online forums recently, just too much going on in the face to face world these days! Yeah gout can quickly drain one of motivation to be sure!
You are wise to resist pronouncements. I know people often do that to sort of "lock in" on a path so there can be some usefulness, but it can also add social pressure that is not terribly helpful, as well as putting one under the microscope.
It seems to me to be more beneficial to just do something for yourself and then over time as people see the change and ask, you can tell them what you've been doing and then they wont be near as put off by it, or feel like you are preaching at them.
Crocs worked for me, those ugly rubber shoes. I also bought a pair of over-size office shoes for meetings. I can wear whatever again, but found I like the office shoes that give my feet more room. I go barefoot a lot now and around the farm, wear neoprene boots, dead sexy (not) when I have shorts on, LOL! :)
Well, hang in there, you'll make it! That attack will pass and you'll be much better off over the long haul, for sticking to LFRV! :)
It surely could be gout if she has not been a vegan for long. It could be - and most certainly is - a consequence of her previous eating habits.
It could be, and conventional treatment is largely the same. I think also that someone on 80/10/10 for a time will also reduce the amount of free salts floating around since eating largely fruit you wont have near as much different types of salts as when eating processed foods, etc. For me, when I had a recurrence of gout, I had not eaten any meat in quite some time, so perhaps pseudo gout or perhaps I still have purines inside. I'm not sure how long they hang around for. I still have fat to loose so maybe purines are stored in that?
Also, although spinach does contain purines and one place says to avoid it another says that the purine in spinach will not cause gout attack. Ah, the beauty of conflicting information! :)
Thanks for your great replies everyone.
I was eating meat up until 2 weeks ago. I weighed 62.8kgs when i started 80 10 10 and now I weigh 59.3. I am eating heaps! I am mananging 1800 to 2200 calories on mostly fruit with salad (huge family sized bowl) at night. However I have not been drinking enough water. But much more than I usually would. Probably about 1.5 litres a day. The cooler weather does not help. I have not been doing much exercise either as I have been studying for an exam.
I will definitely increase the water!! and the exercise (with my foot out of the way somehow)
Excellent! Yeah keep drinking lots, you'll get through this!
+ 1 on watermelon, I wasn't aware of it's effect on kidneys, but I do know for sure that if I eat watermelon I pee more than it seems I am even taking in! That sounds like a great tip!
Just went to health shop for natural pain relief and of course the herbalist asked what was going on. So I have celery seed extract. Will see how that goes. But she wanted to give me fish oils too and said I am not having enough protein. It all gets a bit confusing!!! Trying to stay strong. I need a good nights sleep so hopefully the pain relief works.
She also reccomended more slouble fibre and told me to take psylium. I thought there was enough in fruit but she said that is insoluble fibre??
You don't need more protein than you would get following 80/10/10, although "conventional wisdom" thinks the more protein we eat the better. Actually protein breakdown by products contribute to gout and other inflammatory processes from what I have read. Not all proteins are the same though. Also, fish oil is often recommended by people of a conventional-nutrition paradigm as possibly helping with inflammation since it is omega 3, but I believe you can also get that from flax seed. Overall though I think you'll be better off without a bunch of oil, you can refer back to 80/10/10 on that again.
Have you been keeping it elevated and tried icing it? Is it about the same or trending any better? Make sure to drink water like a camel! :)
Yes I have been drinking as much water as possible. Kept foot up in the evenings. The pain is massive when I bring it down though and can then only walk by dragging my foot to keep pressure on the floor. Lifting it off the floor is horrible. It actually feels like my foot is broken right across the top and at other times like little knives are driving into the joint.
Natural pain relief has not worked. It seems to be worse at night. It just keeps getting worse. Last night I hardly got any sleep and I cannot walk well at all. So I have resorted to panadol and codine. I am off to chemist soon to get strong antiflams.
Don't worry I am not going to buy fish oil :) I felt like saying to her do you honestly believe that would be the natural thing to do? How would we get those high doses if it wasn't for the unnatural natural health industry? But it still so confusing and hard when you are not feeling so bad to stay strong. I have even been in tears! The tiredness doesn't help cased by the lack of sleep due to pain.
It is getting into winter here and I things fruit is very expensive so I have been eating mostly bananas with fa few frozen berries. Salad from the garden and some kiwi and feijoas I was given apples. A few dates well. But the health shop lady said kiwis and feijoas are acidic? From what I have read that is not the same as acid forming in the body? So she prob didn't know what she was talking about and she is a qualified natural health practitioner!! But, I don't really like kiwis anyway so am now just eating mostly bananas. i am hoping that it is truly ok to make bananas your staple. If I can make it to the supermarket I will buy some watermelon but they are about $5 each for small ones. Oh and none of it is organic. I have applied for an account with the wholesalers so should be able to get more organic after that.
Can i ask what made you stick to it? Especially the first time you got an attack. It is really helping to talk to someone who has actually been through this :)
The first time I got an attack I was still on SAD diet. I didn't know what the heck was going on and thought that maybe a horse that had stepped on my foot had done some damage. It was weird because I walked that pain off and within a day was fine. A week later I could not walk, with symptoms as you describe. It is truly miserable!
I did have some flares as I lost weight on my way down when I went raw. I had other "detox" symptoms too, low energy, felt like I was sick with a bad cold, headaches, etc. I wasn't 80/10/10 at the time, so I don't know if that would've helped or made any difference with the gout flares, but I am sure it would've helped to have less fat and more calories for the feeling of low energy!
At first, I took anti inflammatory meds. They did not make the pain go away right away as a pain med might, But over a day or two, I could hobble along again without ruing my existence.
I know that over the long haul, we are better off without meds as they simply "rob Peter to pay Paul" health-wise, but I simply couldn't get around otherwise. I do programming/database stuff "during the day", but before and after work I work a horse farm, about 4-6 hours a day, every day and it involves a lot of walking around, leading horses, etc.
As I went on, I came off all medications, even ibuprofen and after a couple months I felt better than I had felt since being a little kid. So much less pain, even my baseline discomfort, was hovering around zero! In fact, I hadn't realized just how uncomfortable I was becoming over the years. I was probably taking about 800 - 1200 mg of ibuprofen a day, and that was without gout flares. The gout was just the latest in a long series of aches and pains for me.
I am so sorry you are going through this now, just as you start doing the right thing for your body! It's kind of like how people work hard all the time and then right when they go on vacation, BAM! They catch flu or cold. Not fair! But hang in there because you will see, you will feel so much better!
I know we don't recommend medications, they are NOT on the diet plan for sure and there are lots of contra-indications for them. But you have to do, what you have to do, to get through the day (and night). Don't feel bad, or become disheartened! I think that you are doing things with your eyes open and that is a HUGE step forward! Just your observations about the well intentioned advice given to you? Excellent! You're "getting it"! :)
Stick to this type of eating and you will find that going forward you will not have to run back to pills again and again. You'll be able to kick them to the curb and experience health in the way it is meant to be!