Defense of Veganism and Compassion for Animals from a Religious Perspective--General/Master Thread

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Permalink Reply by pradtf on April 26, 2010 at 3:15pm

ok i thought i'd post this here because it is a mishmash of lots of stuff.
what is most interesting though is i received it as junk email.
we must be doing pretty well if ar/veg is now being circulated as junk email!
in the email, it was supposedly translated into chinese as well.

in friendship,
prad


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From: "[(¥D)­C¿q©Ò´£­Òªº¶¼­¹]=[(Lord) Jesus advocated vegetarian diet]"
To:
Subject: [A people who found the real God for many years be saved=(¥D)­C¿q©Ò´£­Òªº¶¼­¹]
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:39:33 +0800

一个 寻求真神多年 得救的台湾人

[Forward] : [(Lord) Jesus advocates vegetarianism.] : A person who has found the Real God for many years was saved (Please help me post this article so that everyone knows the learning and growth to make life strong.) ~ Please connect the following link for further information : [(Devour the Earth)-GB=铁围内的悲歌(GB)]

First : I would like to ask everybody to think about the disease of mad cow, Avian flu, Foot-and-Mouth disease, SARS, Typhoons, the reasons for above things, aren’t they occurred because the “True God” created the universe and then we hurt the earth and the good life ? I would like people who see these contents could spend more time to consider the fact that I have said, to know the meaning of Bible that teach us to maintain the environmental and ecological conservation, and how to cherish it all, in order to meet the love and expectation of (Lord) Jesus.（We hope that people who see the content can translate it into other languages and forward to their friends.）Let the Earth be holier and more beautiful, the kind living creature can be free happy and protected. (Please refer to the Bible, Genesis Chapter I (sections 29-30) and (original sin) explanation). [Note]: (1) Let us expect with heartfelt the coming of cloned meat-(rapid growth of plant gene + integrated zooblast), which could save more lives. (Note: This is also a necessary procedure to complete the technology of cloned people.); (2): We also wish a grace of holy-spirit (spirit) create- [A special property molecular construction (ex: magnetic field molecular) + lives gene= mass replace weight], a suitable complete life system management which could change our old habit of diet and life, thus to avoid harm more lives.

Second : please re-consider, The spirit of God was there because human beings have the desire (original sin). (1) Prophet Moses saved the Jews out of Egypt in the thirteenth century BC (2) In 566 BC, [saints Buddha] taught the importance and significance of life; (3) The son of the Lord [Jesus Christ] was born in the first year of AD for the great sacrifice on behalf of the significance of teaching; (4) then there is Saints [Muhammad] the last prophet in the year AD 570. (5) Taoism, Hinduism and polytheism are emerging because of the respect and memory to the great people. So please think about the meaning of life, take care, manage and cherish the earth, because these are all owing to effort and the lead of the spirit of God and the love of (Lord) Jesus and the saints, prophets, justice of the people. (6) And people can isolate and cure the sicked animals and take care of them instead of killing them. Let them die in a natural way in order to avoid repeated variant virus to increase the injury. As to the farming animals such as chicken, cattle, geese, it is wrong to deprive their right to survive and stripped their fresh after death in order to make feed, clothing, canned food. They should be taken care of until die naturally and properly buried - (most importantly, do not feed them meat food); (7) In addition, if we can not take care of them and must release them to wild life, we must ask the recommendations of the experts or computer information to avoid our kindness harm to other kind of life to survive. Vegetarian also allows your body gets healthier to strive for you again. The meaning of religion (monotheistic) is to let us know that you and I and other kind of life (animals) are born equally important and that the love is undeniable. Oh, would like to one another's, come on, thank you.- (We may plan the good eating habits starting from eat more vegetables and less meat -it also can energy saving and carbon reduction. ) [Note]: There is now vegetarian multi-vitamin pills available. In addition, cattle, horses, elephants, are all healthy, so let’s do it.

Taitung City of Taiwan - (ZHANG Zhen-Yu) - ID card number-V120132931 –April 3, 2006 (Note: The dog we raised is vegetarian for several years), please translate and forward to friends in other countries when you after reading. Thank you very much - (With good faith, our spirit can have better support and stronger, you can overcome a lot of problems, and to make more acquaintance to many good people. When there is chance, please go to church to meet with Reverend Father and other people to study, you will be able to learn more about the spirit of God, (Lord) Jesus, love, truth, truth, knowledge and meaning, love is forever).

Remarks columns : [the explain of original sin] :

[1]-Bible:

(1) Then God said,”I give you every seed bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it--- I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.(Ge1:29-30) ;

(2) But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.(Ge9:4) ;

(3) Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them.(1 Co 6:13) ;

(4) To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil (Isa 1:11,15-16) ;

(5) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice.. (Mat 9:13 & 12:7) ;

(6) Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. (Pro 15:17) ;

## Others-

[2] Islam : [People who pity other creatures will receive real pity; Do not let you stomach become tomb of life--Hadith] ;



[3] Taoism : Advised:[More consideration and less harm] ;Taoism-Advised:[Good cause with nice effect and bad cause with evil retaliate] ;



[4] Hinduism : [Since you could not make life from death, you should be responsible for killing them。Thus, the people killing will be down to hell unable to be exculpated. - (Unfettered and free hours in origin - Chapter 17 - Poetry 159-165) ;



[5] Tibetan Esotericism : [Kill animals for sacrifice to gods equal to kill children to sacrifice mothers by their meats and it is miserable mistake. (- The highest law for Disciple - Taboo of Guru - Failure of thirteen sorrows- Master Gampopa) ;



Afterworlds: The dialectic of people with religious belief are simply: since animals are worthy as well as belong to god, and live for god, inessential actions to kill animals are guilty. Anyhow, animals have rights to be live.- Dr.Andrew Linzey ,



# Conclusion: Wish you all grow up strong Amen! (Note : Should learn how to make respect to lives to be your lifestyle.)



Third : [(Lord) Jesus advocates vegetarianism.]: Please connect the following link for further information :[(Devour the Earth)-GB=铁围内的悲歌(GB)]

"Ancient Judea self-torture religious sect (modern Catholicism and Christianity) gospel of peace: The first volume" was contained the massive literature, expressed view point of (Lord) Jesus explicitly regarding the vegetarian diet. For example, once some people asked (Lord) Jesus: “[Moses] is the greatest person of Israeli; he allows our ancestors to eat the pure animal's meat, but not domestic animal's meat. Such being the case, why do you forbid us to eat all animal's meat? Which one actually is the God regulation? Is [Moses] or you? (Lord) Jesus replied: “[God] orders your ancestors not to take lives, but their hearts are numb and still non stop taking lives. Therefore [Moses] has to do another way to request everybody not to kill people at least, but allows killing the animals. However your ancestors did not only kill the animal, but also kill people. Now I must tell you clearly, regardless of the human or the animal, for all food enter your mouth , all [does not permit to slaughter ]; (Lord) Jesus then explained in detailed the food his apprentice may eat “What you eat namely become your body, what you think namely become your spirit. Therefore, all the fruit on the tree are eatable, all grain in the field are all edible, because these are gifts from [God]. But do not eat the food cooked by the fire of death because it came from Satan. Only the food on the dinner table of God’s such as fruit and corn and so on, are what you should enjoy. Other than that, all belongs to the Satan, they will lead you to the evil and the way to disease and death. Moreover, the feast on dinner table of God’s will bring you energy and vitality so that you are far away from disease's entanglement permanently. (Lord) Jesus was born to be a vegetarian, even when he was also in his mother's belly. Jesus was born in a vegetarian family that has the vegetarian tradition to a pious life. About this point, you may find it in (Lord) Jesus biography which refers obviously to the ancient Judea self-torture religious sect (modern Catholicism and Christianity).

[ Note: (A): The scientist had discovered continuously that the cell of the animal cause tremendous damage and change to human DNA and create fearful disease problems like cancer, nerve disease, and so on; Therefore here is the importance of vegetarian food (element diet) to all.] (We may plan the good eating habits starting from eat more vegetables and less meat -it also can energy saving and carbon reduction). (B): Let us expect with heartfelt the coming of cloned meat-(rapid growth of plant gene + integrated zooblast), which could save more lives. (Note: This is also a necessary procedure to complete the technology of cloned people.); (C): We also wish a grace of holy-spirit (spirit) create- [A special property molecular construction (ex: magnetic field factor) + lives gene= mass replace weight], a suitable complete life system management which could change our old habit of diet and life, thus to avoid harm more lives.

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Permalink Reply by B on April 26, 2010 at 3:44pm

interesting, gives new meaning to philip k dick's words: "The symbols of the divine initially show up at the trash stratum." in the 21st century it's mail's junk box. and also I guess this would need to be considered some sort of vego spam substitute, since they're not trying to sell you the little blue pills, but rather offering you a red one for free..

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Permalink Reply by B on April 26, 2010 at 4:00pm

This is a passage from the end of the Gospel of Thomas, which is one of the gnostic texts found in Nag Hammadi (Egypt) in the 1940s:

(disciples ask) "When will the kingdom come?"

Jesus sez: "It will not come by by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is'. Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

A number of gnostic sects were known to be vegos because they shunned the material world and thought things. I think to a degree when we eat a frugivorous diet and treat our body right, we find paradise in the present moment rather than in another world beyond our own. as far as I can tell this is the only one we have anyway, so the most spiritual thing to do would be to live our lives fully in this world, and try to make it somewhat of a better place than we left it, since we're all just passing through here.


Here's a passage from another gnostic text 'Hymn of the Pearl'..

It's an allegory of spiritual progress on the gnostic path, it tells the story of a prince who is instructed by his parents to leave his kingdom in Parthia (NE Iran) and go to egypt to retrieve the pearl from the clutches of the giant serpent (I interpret it as descending from the heavenly realms into the body to awaken the kundalini energy at the base of the spine). He goes to egypt but he is found out:

"But in some way or another,
they perceived that I was not of their country.
So they mingled their deceit with me,
and they made me eat their food.
I forgot that I was a son of kings,
and I served their king.
And I forgot the pearl,
on account of which my parents had sent me.
Because of the burden of their exhortations,
I fell into a deep sleep."

He forgets who he is, until he is reminded of his mission by his folks and retrives the pearl and ascends to the heavenly realms once again yada yada..

I've often wondered if the food which puts him to sleep was meat. I really think that people who eat animal foods can be considered to be asleep on a certain level, like the folks stuck in the matrix who think the illusory reality they live in is the real one. we're trying to wake them up to a certain extent, but for better or for worse only some are ready to wake up (the buddha said a similar thing). on the other hand eating a vego diet, particularly lfrv I think really expands one's consciousness and moral awareness, so we have access to states of lasting peace, contentment, and wonderment.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Lion-Raw on April 27, 2010 at 9:25am

and this is from another discussion by Aui - again on RAW is the LAW (another blatant plug - please come and check us out...)


Essene Gospel, Brahmins & Buddhism mixing it up 2000 years ago,...

I think it very shortsighted of people to assume that people, culture and knowledge did not travel widely in the past. The Egyptians had large boats and travelled extensively. Jeshuas uncle Jo was a rich man with much power and wealth with mining interests in Great Britain. They travelled great distances in the past just as we do today, it may have taken longer but all the major cities would have been in contact with each other for sure. As im sure you are well aware there is a huge chunk of his life missing from the "bible". Where was he ? what was he doing ? making chairs out of wood apparently !

Great post Aui -

heres my favourite from Thomas - kind of sealed it for me - going & being all raw ; )



These are the secret sayings spoken by Jeshua and transcribed by Didymos ("the twin") Judas Thomas.


1 And he said,

"The one who finds the interpretation of these sayings shall not taste death."

2 Jeshua said,

"Let the one who seeks not stop seeking until he finds;
and when he finds, he will be agitated.
When he is agitated, he will be amazed,
and he will rule over everything."

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Permalink Reply by B on April 27, 2010 at 10:05am

thx RIL. interesting translation/interpretation of the the 1st quote from the text.. It makes sense that when one sees beyond all separation and finds one 'self', both physical death is transcended (cos you ain't identified with the body exclusively anymore), and one would realize that the same awareness and lifeforce lives in all creatures, so killing and eating another animal would essentially amount to self cannibalism (which isn't the healthiest thing to do either lol).

It makes sense that Egypt would quite the cosmopolitan place during the late axial period, particularly a port city like Alexandria. Theeastern and western worlds so to speak would've reached a confluence there, and all variety of religious and philosophical teachings would've encountered one another, e.g. early christians, buddhist, hermeticism, neo-platonists, hindus, even taoists perhaps. from there it wouldn't be difficult for knowledge to pass south to a place like Nag Hammadi. All this may explain why some passages from thomas read more like zen koans than something you'd expect to find in the bible.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Lion-Raw on May 2, 2010 at 11:47am

zen xristianity ~ love that ; )

true thomas's passages are kinda zen-like and are designed to get the student thinking rather than preaching to them

thinking - its not illegal, yet ; )

peas

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Permalink Reply by Akincana Krishna das on April 26, 2010 at 4:14pm

I've been trying to follow the path of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas for about 14 years now. Vaisnavas are vegetarian as a rule, and the many scriptures we follow are full of heavy comments against harming animals, especially for food. My home page has a few simple quotes which I think especially endorse living off of fruit and leaves.

Here are a few verses from one of our main scriptures, Srimad Bhagavatam, condemning animal killing for food, considering meat-eating as a very gross type of selfish consciousness, although if one did a thorough search one could find many many such verses:

SB 10.10.8: Nārada Muni said: Among all the attractions of material enjoyment, the attraction of riches bewilders one's intelligence more than having beautiful bodily features, taking birth in an aristocratic family, and being learned. When one is uneducated but falsely puffed up by wealth, the result is that one engages his wealth in enjoying wine, women and gambling.

SB 10.10.9: Unable to control their senses, rascals who are falsely proud of their riches or their birth in aristocratic families are so cruel that to maintain their perishable bodies, which they think will never grow old or die, they kill poor animals without mercy. Sometimes they kill animals merely to enjoy an excursion.

SB 10.10.10: While living one may be proud of one's body, thinking oneself a very big man, minister, president or even demigod, but whatever one may be, after death this body will turn either into worms, into stool or into ashes. If one kills poor animals to satisfy the temporary whims of this body, one does not know that he will suffer in his next birth, for such a sinful miscreant must go to hell and suffer the results of his actions.

Here's a very heavy statement from Caitanya Charitamrita:

CC Ādi 17.166: "Cow-killers are condemned to rot in hellish life for as many thousands of years as there are hairs on the body of the cow."

One point is that it is a fundamental concept of Indian spiritual culture that all living beings have an eternal soul, animals, fish, plants, all included. Thus anyone trying to become more spiritually conscious must respect all living entities from the spiritual point of view and never do any unnecessary harm to another living being.

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Permalink Reply by Akincana Krishna das on April 29, 2010 at 3:52pm

http://vedabase.net/

krishna.com is also recommended.

check out "food for the spirit" by Steven Rosen for a book on vegetarianism in world religions.

please feel free to write me with any questions.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Lion-Raw on April 27, 2010 at 9:17am

Something i posted on an identical duscussion on RAW is the LAW if you ignore the here on RITL perspective - still some interesting points
also everyone is very welcome to come and explore RAW is the LAW....

1 - as i have been having to do on other forums, defending veganism is something i have tried to explain to the meat eaters. I dont feel like we need to defend it as such. words that spring up around the meat-eating discussions are guilt, sin, bad-karma, murder, suffering, pain etc...it is the meat eaters that need to defend their actions...wheras veganism as you have pointed out is about not harming any living being ~ and thus really needs no defence as no crime has been commited. We dont need to defend our actions of picking an apple up off the floor for breakfast or growing some carrots. I dont want to come across as pedantic, but considering the current online climate on some sites regarding 'veganism' i think this is a noteworthy point.

2 - Also although there is plenty of evidence for religous backing of a meat-free existence we here on RAW is the LAW are not religous per se. The Essenes were a sect of the Judaic religion but were not as we think of a religion today. the word religion means an organised religion with many rules and rituals. Believe this and dont question - no path as of such. they preach the dead letter...maybe buddhism is the only remaining living religion as they do actually have a practice and a practical spiritual path to follow. The Essenes followed a "living spiritual code" which gave them immense powers seemingly "super"natural, and were considered as almost another race of beings, they were so distinctly different from the masses..

After reading the Essene documents one can see how anti-religous the teacher of Rightousness is..
No church - no elaborate rituals to follow - no priests ! - even says not to look for the LAW in books, for the LAW is LIFE. The essenes advised reading from the BOOK of NATURE, not from the BOOK of MAN ! And the LAW is not considered as a rule like in religion.

'The LAW does not exist, it is valid'

meaning again we need not defend our "beliefs" as they are based in the underlying laws of reality....

please dont let me put anyone off posting about religions and their support of the vegan way but just wanted to clarify where we stand here on RAW is the LAW, ie we are not "religous" and we dont feel the need to defend our actions, as stated above weve not broken any law and there are no injured parties to complain and answer to...living this way is totally liberating in both of these concerns, as we feel free from the shackles of an organised religion and do not suffer from guilt and bad-karma from our peacefull actions - this truly is a liberating way to live...


ok and back to the actual thread heres my contribution...for all you "christians" out there...

"he that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man" - Isaiah 66:3

- says it all really - conveniently ignored by most so called Christians

whirled peas please ;)

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Permalink Reply by B on April 27, 2010 at 10:10am

I agree the corpse eaters are the ones that have to defend their eating habits not us. the bottom line is that they can't defend their eating habits, and they have to resort to all manner of diversions/rationalizations/falsehoods to avoid facing this fact.

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Permalink Reply by pradtf on April 27, 2010 at 10:20am

from sheepdog on the physics forum:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I put it to you that it is not for vegetarians to justify our diet, but it is for the meat eaters to justify meat eating. And I further put it to you that anyone who has a choice about his diet and chooses to eat meat can only justify it with reasons all of which fall into one category, the "Because I want to screw like a chimp" category. Look:

"Because I want to (and I want to screw like a chimp)"
"Because it tastes good (and it feels good to screw like a chimp)"
"Because my ancestors ate meat (and they were chimps and I want to screw like a chimp)"
"Because it's natural (and chimps naturally screw a lot and I want to screw like a chimp)"

And if someone insists that you tell them why you do not eat meat, it is enough to say, "Because I do NOT want to screw like a chimp. We can do better than that."

A simple, clear, ethical choice. And therein lies the paradigm shift.
http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/natural-good

in friendship,
prad

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