I wonder why does people continue to throw bad light on the raw vegan movement ? why ? oh why? what do we did?
I feel for me this is a peaceful way and not a prepare to fight for Armageddon! Come on ! 2012 is ending soon enough and i want to change the world to a better place. By doing the right thing and choosing the right way of living and part of this eating and i gonna tell u something else i do not like it when people call to the battle field or offend others that openly and brutal.
Before you continue to read, and to understand my point, please watch the video posted at,
YOU ALL saw that ? you heard what was said ? what was that good for ? showing the world that the stereotype of the crazy raw vegan (bitch) is fitting ?
What should be done with someones tax money and not , fair enough.
But really 9/11 ? why ?
It could not have be more offending, than when you would have said during the Second World War the vegetarians once killed the Jews ! (If people do not know so far Hitler was a vegetarian)
I can not believe that people can be so offensive for what ? why ?
I know that there are times we are angry. I know that there are times we feel misjudged and want to act. But do we really have to do it like this ?
I am for discussions but I am not for getting a knife rammed in my back for asking all of you out there, if you agree which such an aggressive behavior?
I am for peace and a peaceful way, this is how i see the diet, i don't mean to turn a blind eye on the rest of the world but really do we need to be that offending to persuade other people that this is the right path ?
i want your suggestions and do not show an aggressive behaving as it whas shown in this start up.
When I saw that video I had already been researching and getting into becoming vegan, I agreed with a lot of Freelee's points, and was not offended.
Had I seen that video before having my mind set on becoming vegan, I still probably would of not been that offended.
I guess it just depends on the person
I should say I was a little offended by it, but I knew that there were bad qualities about me that I never knew for sure how to get rid of. So I was very willing to listen to her point them out, Harley too, and almost any other vegan promoter.
Like you, I tend to want to walk "the peaceful path" however, each person has a different set of tools. For example, my strengths seem to lay in encouraging people and being willing to help. I work for a man who's strength is his force of personality, he can get people to move! In a way I never could. It could be argued that he might turn some people off, maybe get less out of people than he would if they were doing something happily instead of in fear of his wrath and yet at times where I could make no progress at all, he can push something through.
Also, one thing we have noticed is that once he has "beaten" on someone supposed to do a hob here, they are HAPPY to work with me! Although perhaps before meeting the other guy, they would have dragged their heels for me, now they are so happy to work with me. LOL!
So we each have a different way we are wired, different personality, different perspective. Each gift is important for a different circumstance or situation. So some of Freelee and Harley's more fierce videos, yes to some they may simply be offensive, but for some people, they NEED to see the message that way. Other people need a more gentle approach. SO when you see something that strikes you as being too harsh, it's fine for you to judge that for yourself, and fine to ask about it. But know that it maybe part of the key to YOU reaching someone. You may surprise them with your gentle-veganism after they've seen something more fierce and it may be just the 1-2 combination they need to shock them awake and then gentle them into a much better path.
I personally will leave Freelee and Harley to defend their own work and messages, but I will say that they get TONS of negative feedback and yet they keep going, because they feel they are on the right path and they are motivated to help people. I think the numbers signed up on this site speaks to that. No one is perfect, we all make mistakes, but sometimes even what seem to be mistakes, end up working towards the good.
There ARE a lot of aggressive forces out there and me being a gentle soul, I am really grateful that there are some people with the kind of personalities to be able to take those on, so I can just gentle around afterwards, helping the shocked stragglers after the main event. :)
that is a good point and also i know those people that manage to push further were others are not able to move anything, but really is that right? I just always wonder what were they thinking when they use that aggressive attitude. I always at least think twice before i would post something like this and also this post gave me quiet a thinking if i should do so.
And now i did sure about the consequences it may cause. But in this video when i saw it i felt that her sayings were not thought over again.
the point with 9/11 it made me speechless how curl that sounded and i had to image the families which actually lost member during this event and how they would have felt and i would have not said it like that.
I have to admit that i also posted a comparing that i am not proud of, but i thought that may make people realize the pain they induce as it would offend vegetarians.
I like your post very much and it has a nice wonderful balance way of describing.
thank you for it !
Thanks, I am glad. And it's important to think about family members of victims as you mention. I am sure that Freelee would never approach some individual family member and say "hey your fat brother or sister, cost x number of people their lives," but rather was using it as a general point, that so many times people say "hey this is a personal choice". As if that is the end of the discussion and in a way yes it is, and yes it is, and yet.... there ARE ramifications and when we make our personal choices we need to own them and be ready for the consequences they may have, including people calling us on it.
I think that Freelee's point is that so many people do not even think about how their "personal choices" are costing so many sentient beings their lives, causing their lives to be a misery and so there is some imperative to get the message out, even if it sometimes hurts. Reminding us that even our food choices are not made in a vacuum.
But I really value and like your sensitivity to the hearer's feelings, your care for how our words may help and will that help outweigh the harm those words may do? Because words are also a personal choice that we end up having to own the consequences of as well.
And I think this process of talking things out is important, we all learn from it. Some people see "the other side's" perspectives better than one of us may and also we may help to explain our side in a way that really needs to be said. In the end as the saying goes:
"As iron sharpens iron, so a friend sharpens a friend."
We each help each other, since we each have a unique perspective. I for one am so glad we have such a wide range, from gentle to aggressive, in our movement! :)
I like Freelee rant "approach", I think her approach wake up more people from the "matrix" then drive people away.
Sometimes deep inside, the "truth" hurts :), so it's normal to some people get offended when someone points finger to the barbarian current practices of our society and you are include as the ones contributing to it. Watch Earthlings and understand...
Good point, many people are so sedated and "under" that without some sort of shock they would never wake up. Maybe the hurt to more sensitive people will not be as bad since the people sensitive enough to be offended will also be sensitive enough to realize that their food choices really do make an impact , in so many ways, and directly to other sentient being's lives.
I tend to be a gentle person by nature (not always, but generally) and so often cringe at the harsh words said, even when they are true and said in a good cause. But I am always hopeful that in the end it will all be for the good. And like I said, I am hopeful that people who would be offended would also be able to "get it" on their own at the right time. So many people however, seem like they are under a spell or something, just turned off and really do need someone to unplug them, shake them awake.
I am for peace too and that's why I loved the video. I think she is very brave and all in all what she wants is peace on this planet. Those are things that need to be said and I'm not brave enough to say them myself, I'm glad she is.
What i sometimes wonder about Freelee and DR is, everybody even they say they want peace and no killing anymore on earth, but for which price. I sometimes feel, also when i saw that video, that they want the peace to be at a high price. I felt like when US was playing out the atomic bomb card during the second World War to reestablish the peace. And if u ask me that was quiet a high price we paid. And this huge aggression is still hanging above us. Im brave enough to say what needs to be said, but do we really have to do it like this ?
I spent a couple of years being deeply annoyed with Durianrider's antics elsewhere. But I was in my late 30's and my health continued to degenerate. I was swinging back and forth from high fat raw vegan to just binge eating on junk food. Somewhere along the way, I saw a video that Freelee posted over at raw food talk and I was amazed at how much fruit she ate in one day and I intuitively understood that humans are meant to eat like that, not Big Macs or flax crackers slathered in fake-raw fat. It took awhile to come to fruition (Ha! bonus points for the pun!) but eventually I ended up here because when I was humbled enough to become open-minded and tried a fruit-based diet, I started feeling significantly better. I made my peace with Durianrider and Freelee; I stopped my judgement and now view them as warriors. Yes, I know that sounds dramatic, but you don't know the swamp of illness I came out of that's been relieved by this way of life.
Its good to hear that there are others out which also don't go 100% conform with what freelee or durianrider says. I understand the part of the warrior but for me there is a line, and after the video i thought she will go and smash the windows of a butcher shop and shout out murderer. although its the truth it throws a strange light on the movement. I'm for talking i'm for convincing and persuading others. Of course there will never be 100% vegan on earth (because there are still the predators :-) ), but for me it makes more sense to show people that vegan food ( i always start to persuade them with cooked stuff) can taste good and is even easier to cook then meat and still makes u satisfied. With things like this i brought so many friends to the point that the choose at least 20% of their weekly intake from vegan food. like for breakfast or dinner they eat vegan. and that is a good start! and i do not had to rub their faces with such aggressive way. I'm for the peaceful path also when it comes to persuade case when u scare people they won't stay with this way.
I love their approach and find it refreshing and highly effective. I hope they never stop. it must be tough "fighting" all the time but they are under such attack, all the time, from multiple quarters - I'm not sure I'd be up to it myself.