Why i pick apart the programs of nison, gabriel, bisci, john fielder,monarch etc.

i feel someone must shine the spotlight on the dangerous misleading yet sincere advice from the sincerely wrong 'raw leaders' that have recently toured australia. their longterm diet approach is confusing, unsustainable and depended on pills, potions etc. what happend to taking control our actions instead of relying on a multitude of pills? anyways getting back to the undereating, starvation plans..

the trend in the raw food movement today is 'eat less! eat less!, become more spiritual on less food! and buy my raw emotions book for when your close to suicide cos your blood sugar is so low and youve been running on ketones and your body is letting you know via depression that this is not a healthy direction..

i emailed various people after fred bisci's talk and they said 'eating less food is better!'

monarchs latest newsletter talks about how you must 'learn to eat less'. and 'a little fruit is ok for breakfast..'

clement says 'fruit is cancer fuel!! its gotta be greens! greens! greens!' BUT CLEMENT LEAVES OUT THE PART HOW HE GETS MOST OF HIS CALORIES FROM COOKED FOOD!! so many peeps are suprised when i mention this after they come to me from trying to live on anne wigmore energy soup rations of around 400cals a day and then they hit a brick wall emotionally and physically..

my question to you is 'if undereating was so healthy, how come anorexics arent so vibrant and energetic? they undereat the most!

ive heard of raw fooders actually dying from organ failure cos they didnt consume enough calories longterm. i know one person that is close to 6ft and around 35kg and was adviced to do a 92 juice feast!! and they did it!

people say 'well these raw speakers get a lot of people to raw..' and i agree but people think raw is chocolate, raw pizza and fruit phobia! most newbies to raw eat less fruit than they did when they ate cooked!!!!! HOLLY BANANA!!

these raw leaders say 'dont worry about calories, just eat a little bit of food and meditate, take my supplements and youll be ok as long as you get some lettuce in..'

these raw leaders aint bad people, its just that they themselves do not have enough carbs to think properly. undereating healthy? look at the photos..

EAT ENOUGH FRUITS AND LEARN HOW TO ENSURE YOUR GETTING ENOUGH CALORIES FROM IT!! anything under 400g of carbs(2000cals) a day is a starvation plan i say, leading to progressive decline in health and vitality.

eat enough fuel so you have enough fuel to be active and this will generate more hunger and keep you on the healthy cycle..instead of fading away to sedentary depression..

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Permalink Reply by DURIANRIDER on June 21, 2009 at 1:11am

you cant be 811 longterm and be anorexic..but we can be doing 'our own versions of 811' and have issues for sure.

811 is about eating enough calories to sustain healthy weight and energy levels.

longterm, its impossible to be getting our nutrients and be that thin.

can someone write up a caloric equation based on 811 principles that would mathematically lead someone to becoming anorexic? ive tried and i cant.

nison, monarch, clement and the 'eat less' gang..for sure. lucky for most people on these caloric restriction programs, they just go out and eat cooked food and get some calories but a few people that have a different mindset will starve emselves to the limit and thats what im talking about..

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Permalink Reply by Lukas on June 20, 2009 at 7:44pm

Thanks for the message and your suggestions.

I understand how frustrating it might be to see "raw food" movement going this way. Maybe it would be best not to associate yourself with the "raw food" movement. "Raw food" and most raw fooders are a joke when it comes to doing things that build health, simply a joke. Raw is only one component to all the species specific nutrition's that 10's of millions of species consume, only a component. Almost all raw fooders mimic cook fooders in so many way that it is not funny. Look man is doing so many non constructive things towards their health and the health of our environment that we depend for our survival that it is not funny. I would go crazy if I though about all that stuff that they are doing which only degrades our climate, nature, and society. I recommend dis-attaching yourself from all this stuff and actually from raw food label also. Call your lifestyle something else if you must, I chose to call my nutrition not "raw food nutrition" but instead physiological nutrition or species specific nutrition.

If I may add to your 2000 calorie recommendation, I would add that you need to actually absorb 2000 calories, I don't care how much you show down your throat if you do it in such a way that it will compromise absorption, or if people keep their digestive system in the condition of a sewer than you have no hope.

Also I would like to add that 2000 calories is goof for an average size male/female. For children 1000 calories absorbed might be more than enough, and for giants 2000 is no where close enough:-) Guys just stay tuned to your body it will tell you exactly when it need to absorb more nutrients and when it has absorbed plenty, you know that thing called hunger and feeling of satiation? we have it for a reason, it makes things simple for us. Some days we might need 4000 cal. and others maybe only 1500 calories. These people that listen and practice this under eating are doing it because they are soooo out of touch with their body.

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Permalink Reply by DURIANRIDER on June 21, 2009 at 1:18am

ok i take that back, we can be way too thin and be 811..ie: we have just started 811 and on the way to improved health and fitness..

just as we can be obese and 811 and again we have just started it and on the way to improved health and fitness..

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Permalink Reply by Swayze on June 23, 2009 at 3:49am

Excellent post!

It's one thing when people promote useless, but relatively harmless products like goji berries and noni juice...it's a whole different thing when they advocate starvation diets, hydro-colonics and enemas.

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Permalink Reply by Blueberry on June 23, 2009 at 5:52am

Great post Durianrider, what rawfooders have you heard of died of organ failure, is this true or just gossip, do you have any more info?

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Permalink Reply by pradtf on June 23, 2009 at 8:00am

issac newton's 3rd law:
"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
(and it seems to applies to all phenomena)

but the real killer is the 1st law:
"Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it."

which is also known as the law of inertia and it seems to explain why some people refuse to change the way they've decided to be ... despite the evidence of reality and all the teachings of the great masters.

in friendship,
prad

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Permalink Reply by pradtf on June 23, 2009 at 8:56am

interesting. i hadn't thought of the 1st law applying to dharma, but i see it now!

unfortunately, it also applies to avoiding dharma just as easily and relentlessly staying on the straight and narrow path to nowhere. such is inertia and you need a force to alter it. :D

in friendship,
prad

Permalink Reply by pradtf on June 23, 2009 at 10:16am

it does indeed work both ways.
it is a great insight you have provided regarding this first law!
i was thinking about it while walking the dogs just now.

in return, perhaps you'll enjoy this little story (though it is likely you are already familiar with it if you have had any encounters with the mahabharata):
http://www.towardsfreedom.com/DogsinHeaven.html

in friendship,
prad

Permalink Reply by Dr. Doug Graham on June 23, 2009 at 8:11am

OK. This is a great topic, and relevant as all heck to the raw scene as it is currently being presented by various marketers of raw and related products. Glad to see so much discussion, and to read so many insightful responses.

Let's start a movement of clarity. Let's name things, and people, what they really are. The confusion happens because marketers disguise themselves as educators (or are confused as such by the audience,) and people that fail to lead are still referred to as leaders. How about if we start calling marketers "salespeople," and people that aren't leading but thought of as leaders, "attention grabbers." Oh yes, we could still refer to educators as educators, but there sure aren't many of them in raw. Pretty much everyone in the limelight is a salesperson. What say we start calling them salespeople. Eventually, I think, the name will catch on, like the phrases "lifestyle coach" and "caloronutrient" did, shortly after I coined them.

Oh yes, let's not forget one other important issue. Upwards of 75% of the people in the West are obese, overweight, or just fat. I am not convinced that even in this discussion of the ultra-thin that we should just let them slide. In this day and age of increased ecological awareness, it is time to make being over-fat immoral.

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Permalink Reply by Peter Berquist on June 23, 2009 at 8:25am

Thanks for posting, Dr. D! It's great to have your input here!
I like your idea of starting a movement of clarity. And it doesn't have to be about bashing or name calling, just clarity.
Based on my own experience of being led astray by some of the "salespeople" when I attempted to go raw a couple of years ago, I think a movement of clarity can be very helpful.

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Permalink Reply by rebeccaj on June 23, 2009 at 8:45am

Wow! Thank you for your clarity and your leadership, and for joining in the discussion with such strength. Thank you.

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Permalink Reply by pradtf on June 23, 2009 at 12:20pm

ya but rgg, isn't there that saying which goes the way to a man's heart is through his stomach?
when it comes to fat and cardiac issues it is certainly true :D

in friendship,
prad