This point was very confusing for me at the beginning of my 811 journey...
Weight loss has been an important aspect of my venture into the 811 lifestyle, as I have been overweight for most of my life. "The 80/10/10 Diet" by Douglas Graham, which is an amazing book in most ways, has a section specifically about weight loss - but it's all about counting calories, figuring out how many calories you need, and making sure you don't eat too much if you want to take off weight.
The Durianrider/Freelee philosophy is "never restrict calories, eat tons of fruit, make sure you're eating enough - even if you need to loose weight." These are the principles that I try to live by now, and it's helped me be much more successful on this diet.
So Doug Graham has been into food and health and nutrition for a long time. I'm sure he advises tons of people. So how is there a discrepancy on this fundamental and crucial point?
Frankly, I'm hesitant to suggest that people who are new to a low fat raw vegan diet read "The 80/10/10 Diet" as their first book, because I figure they'll get confused by this point and struggle on the program. It's a shame the book makes this idea confusing.
I watched a youtube video with Dr. Graham with Harley in it where they asked him if it's possible to eat too much fruit. Graham says something like "You're eating too much fruit if you're gaining weight..." It boggles my mind why he would say that... Any thoughts?
Ratchet style :) lol
Well said Freelee!
That doesn't really prove anything. If I started eating 1500 calories a day I can almost guarantee you that I would lose 10 pounds.
That doesn't mean that restricting calories is the only/best way to lose weight. The body self-regulates its weight. If 200-500 fruit calories is the difference between someone losing and gaining weight, there's something wrong with the metabolism, and eating less isn't going to solve that problem.
"I've spoken to many athletes" is purely anecdotal. Guess what - "I've spoken to many athletes on 811 in person and they agree that if you eat tons of calories you don't gain weight unless you're coming from an ED, background of restriction, low carb, or other issue." For all you know, my athletes are lunatics or completely made up.
Actually, it makes me wonder where your athletes are getting their info since the carb overfeeding studies I've seen indicate that you have to eat many thousands of calories more than you are burning. One study had subjects sitting on their asses and eating 8,000+ calories a day before they managed to gain several pounds. These are sample groups, not individual anecdotes. In another thread (Viktorya's thread re: weight gain) a member posted a link to a study discussing carbohydrate metabolism and it was made pretty clear that based on the research and available literature, weight gain on carbs is quite a feat.
I would say they are still way more active than most of the population... Freelee runs a sub 20mins 5000m and Durianrider trains with Tour de France cyclers... They are pushing really hard. Not using a car or public transportation etc etc...
Good answer :)
Freelee actually only exercises every other day and really could not be considered an athlete. She does some races from time to time but does not train near as much as an athlete. The same is true for Harley and they have both stated this regularly.
Hahaha. Harley's an athlete, even if he doesn't train as much as an average athlete.
I don't see either party as being wrong. It is just two different philosophies. Both advocate the 801010 plan, and I think it is absolutely necessary to start with the book. That being said you can lose weight with calorie restriction as stated in the book...but overall DG recommends a higher caloric intake than the sad diet, and advises increasing activity and calories with it. H/F recommend eating lots and living a high energy lifestyle. Therefore, they really don't differ terribly --- in both cases you are encouraged to live an active life. In the end, you will find out what works better for you! For many people in order to stick to the diet, they need to eat more to avoid cravings and function daily. If you undershoot you are worse off, that's for sure! Good luck in your journey!
Oh I must just say as well, that something that Doug ALSO says that most people don't take notice of, is that in order to be following 801010 properly, you need to be burning 40% of your daily calorie intake in activity. That would mean on a 3000 calorie diet that you are burning 1200 calories of that through activity. And I think that if you are following THAT part of the plan, then you would certainly not want (or need) to calorie restrict. So it is a complete picture I guess. I think the book is awesome in so many respects that everyone should certainly read it.
However NO ONE is going to be successful if they are sedentary and think they can only eat 1500 calories a day in order to lose weight/not gain weight.
I think it is also important to remember that if you want to BE thin and fit, you need to ACT thin and fit, and since when would thin and fit need to restrict calories? And of course thin and fit would not skip exercise either. Even if you're 300 pounds, you should act like you're an athlete in training, eat like a champion, train like a champion and you'll become the version of yourself that you are dreaming of.
Thanks Alison, brilliant reply!
I agree with everything you said. It's obviously most ideal to be really active on 811, or any diet for that matter. But your comment doesn't exactly fit my point.
Lets say someone is completely lazy and inactive. Is a diet of fruits and veggies best for them or not? Is there another diet better for them?
No, 811 is an ideal diet.
So should a lazy 811er restrict calories? I say - nope, not if they want to succeed on the diet without falling off the wagon.
I think calorie restriction on a hcrv diet is a mistake no matter how active OR inactive you are. So I tend to agree that this is probably a "blind spot" for Dr Graham...