Why do you believe in a god?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sunshine on August 2, 2012 at 12:12pm

or vise versa that is why it is kept to ones self other wise you breed conflict and cults that got to war over abstraction

none know so to speak of it is to speak of garlic and onions and oil and salt and hot pepper and aloe and fermented and dehydrated and most herbs :P

Permalink Reply by Sunshine on August 2, 2012 at 1:20pm

if you look to primitive tribal culture they infact don't have these types of violence , better reconciliation processes and part of what helps that take place is the way they can't call names or self label like people who join cult to believe in mystical supernatural things do.  heck even Russian and Chinese have this in their language still. Also you the community has solidarity for continued survival

i am Flemish we made most this up to get it to what it is.

you may enjoy some some learning about hierarchical systems so as to avoid the tragedy they enact ? http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/nvc/domination.html  

Permalink Reply by Tinah on August 2, 2012 at 2:58pm

People hold themselves to a structured spirituality you can't really say is found in the material world until you actualize it. It's your highest... and you don't want to confine the term of this to what you've already been... it's something vital~ but not ever seen in full form. I can see why having a conception of god could be a way of defining something you can feel and want to know, want to manifest, but won't put limits on...

Permalink Reply by Jasmine Orchid on August 2, 2012 at 3:38pm

I can feel him in everything I am and do. He is more of me than I am of myself. Besides, how can you look around at all of the mind blowing and astonishing life around us and not recognize that it could only be the work of God? Regardless of if you know or believe in God or not..he loves you and everyone will join him, believers or non once their spirit parts from their body. How could you not love the creator responsible for such a blessing as life?

Permalink Reply by Trevor Smith on August 3, 2012 at 10:06am

Why is it always a "him" and not a "she"?

Permalink Reply by Carla Valdivia Salinas on August 4, 2012 at 6:54am

Hi everyone! :)
I'll describe how I feel about God... I took some lines of an atheist who describe his spirituality talking about the universe...and I really don´t mean to offense that person by taking some of his words, of course, is just that, I felt exactly the same but about God so, I wanted to share with you all, because a lot of atheists and agnostics may think in God as a "person" and think:
-how do they belive in Him/Her when the universe is much greater than the idea of a God (as a person)? you can't see or touch God, How believing in such fantasies?

For me, God is in every single part of the Universe around me.
The Universe that I see before me is, to me, more wonderful than any single thing could ever be. Its magnificence is perfection, so wonderful that we could never understand, how exist things we can't even imagine. More vast & complex than any single mind could possibly design.
I believe in life after dead. I know what is going to happen to me when I die and knowing enables me to be at peace with that, every moment of my life.
I am at peace within myself. I am at peace with the Universe around me.
The Universe is full of life, and I'll be part of it some day, and I can feel it everywhere.
I feel God around me in the trees, in the ground, in the sky, in the stars, in the water. I feel such a loving presence, entering my body with every breath I take.
I take in and I become one with all energy in the Universe around me, every time I step outside and take a breath of fresh air, God's magic and perfect gifts becomes one with all energy I am.

Even when I do not realize... God is around me in the wind, in the touch of the air, in every people's loving eye, in the bird's songs, in people's good actions, in wave's power, in the delicacy of a flower...I know I'm never alone and even when I feel sad, or angry, or jealous...I know God is around me, loving me no matter what, forgiving me when I ask for forgiveness, giving me everything (air, smiles, touch, mountains) even when I don't feel deserving it...

Such is the spirituality, such is the happines of being surrounded by God, everything is perfection!

...I believe in something that most people's minds can never fathom, something so great that no one will ever prove is not real...because God is greater than that, greater than anything.

Permalink Reply by Paul Rovira on August 4, 2012 at 9:36am

Because what makes more sense? The universe created itself? All these atoms came together and now I have  a body, children, and a brain capable of what we call thought...and that's an accident? Neither evolution nor God can be proven by science, which just proves that science doesn't know all. My two cents..let the attacks being now :D

Permalink Reply by The Humane Hominid on August 4, 2012 at 11:07am

Because what makes more sense?

"What makes sense" is the wrong place to begin. We have to start with what the evidence shows, and let that determine what's sensible and what isn't.  Beginning with an assumption of "what makes sense" is guaranteed to trap us in arrogant ignorance. Example: we'd never have figured out subatomic physics if we'd clung to "what makes sense."

The universe created itself? All these atoms came together and now I have  a body, children, and a brain capable of what we call thought...and that's an accident?

What do you mean by "accident"? Things in nature can be non-random without requiring an intelligence behind them.

Neither evolution nor God can be proven by science, which just proves that science doesn't know all.

"Proof" is a mathematical and philosophical concern, not a scientific one. In science, we look at what the evidence tells us is most likely the case. For many things -- like evolution, for instance -- the degree of evidence-based certainty is high enough to be considered 100 percent true for all practical purposes.

Science doesn't claim to know everything, so you're attacking a straw man. All science does is hold all claims to the same standard: we don't accept it as true unless the claimant can provide independently verifiable and replicable evidence, preferably in a lab setting.  If the physical, measurable evidence is consistent regardless of belief, then the claim might be true. 

For instance, we know the claims of quantum theory are true because this computer screen works. The function of this computer screen is premised on quantum theory's predictions about the nature and behavior of light.  And this computer screen works the same whether you are a Christian, a Buddhist, an atheist, a cargo cultist, a minion of Cthulhu, or whatever.

So it works a particular way based on particular predictions of a particular theory, and the spiritual  beliefs of the person testing its working have no effect at all on whether it works. Therefore, we are safe in assuming that the quantum mechanical model of light is true.

Since the nature of "god(s)" isn't like this, and changes depending on belief, it's probably not true. Therefore, we are under no obligation to accept god-claims, no matter how passionately put forward.

Permalink Reply by pradtf on August 5, 2012 at 8:38am

"Proof" is a mathematical and philosophical concern, not a scientific one. In science, we look at what the evidence tells us is most likely the case.

yes people often misapply the word "proof". there are no proofs in empirical science. however, there are cogent arguments supported by evidence.

Science doesn't claim to know everything, so you're attacking a straw man.

absolutely! and more than that, is the "scientists disagree therefore science is wrong" which is an unfortunate plunge into the

Inflation Of Conflict fallacy

there is really one good reason to believe in god and blaise pascal argues it in his pensees: "even if god didn't exist it benefits humans to live as though s/he did." so if believing in god makes the believer a better, more humane and decent individual who acts compassionately towards the rest of god's creatures and treats this "gift of earth" with due respect, then go for it!

(otherwise, forget the exercise :D)

in friendship,

prad

Permalink Reply by futurmajic on August 4, 2012 at 9:42am

"belief is a toxic and dangerous attitude toward reality"

We should either know something is or we should know we do not know if it is. Anything else creates a chaotic world. Find a planet with primitive human life, now convince the primitives they must all take on their own personal beliefs, you have now set the stage for a chaotic planet. This is in reference to any belief about anything. "know or know not, there is no belief" -Reality-

Permalink Reply by Sunshine on August 4, 2012 at 10:09am

well put consensus is important nobody knows it all and the people who say they do are seeking selfish purposes somehow,   even if just keeping order in a community and family in their view of how it 'should' be done.

in the end we all seek positivity and satisfaction   .  we may have tried many different yet tragic ways in the past to figure our emotions towards positive via meeting our values (universally intrinsic to all life) but together in agreement on what would not cause others deprivation seems logical and non divisive to me.  

Permalink Reply by pradtf on August 5, 2012 at 4:09pm

greetings fruitjedi! and welcome to 30bad!

most of michael's write-up here makes sense, but the conclusion he implies is inappropriate. as such he commits the same error he accuses others of by slipping into a world of black and white, specifically "you either believe" or "you accept facts".

there is no problem with this:

Beliefs are our expressions of confidence in the facts

however, the belief futuremajic refers to is belief without facts. michael confuses the two by not acknowledging the difference as though all 'beliefs' are created equal.

as such, michael's argument would seem to be an example of the ambiguity fallacy because we have 

belief with facts

and

belief without facts

both coming under the same umbrella of an ambiguous term 'belief' when each are really quite different.

as a general comment on beliefs, i like what yogananda's guru once told him:

"the universe doesn't wait for the sanction of our beliefs."

that's something not only worth believing in, but also remembering! ;)

in friendship,

prad

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