Ive just had my first session with a dietician (for more info on WHY check out my latest blog post). I tried to explain to her that I GET protein- from fruits and veggies. She then went on to tell me that we need complete proteins at EVERY meal for them to assimilate properly. Examples were beans and rice. How can I explain that getting your essential amino acids over the course of the day is just fine? I need science- she claims that everything she says is based of 'scientific proof'. Can anyone give me the most clear and to the point explanation?? Thank you so much.
Permalink Reply by Raw Zombie on Protein combining (also protein complementing) is a theory, now largely discredited, that vegetarians, particularly vegans, must eat certain complementary foods like beans and rice together in the same meal, so that plant foods with incomplete essential amino acid content combine to form a complete protein, meeting all amino acid requirements for human growth and maintenance.
The theory was initially promoted in Frances Moore Lappé's 1971 bestseller Diet for a Small Planet. The National Research Council and the American Dietetic Association (ADA) soon picked it up, cautioning vegetarians to be sure to combine their proteins.[1] Later, the ADA reversed itself in its 1988 position paper on vegetarianism. Suzanne Havala, the primary author of the paper, recalls the research process:
There was no basis for [protein combining] that I could see.... I began calling around and talking to people and asking them what the justification was for saying that you had to complement proteins, and there was none. And what I got instead was some interesting insight from people who were knowledgeable and actually felt that there was probably no need to complement proteins. So we went ahead and made that change in the paper. [Note: The paper was approved by peer review and by a delegation vote before becoming official.] And it was a couple of years after that that Vernon Young and Peter Pellet published their paper that became the definitive contemporary guide to protein metabolism in humans. And it also confirmed that complementing proteins at meals was totally unnecessary.[2]
Other nutrition experts and medical professionals who now agree that this theory is outdated include Dennis Gordon[3] and Jeff Novick[4] (registered dietitians), and John A. McDougall[5], Andrew Weil[6], and Charles Attwood[7] (medical doctors).
In fact, the original source of the theory, Frances Moore Lappé, changed her position on protein combining. In the 1981 edition of Diet for a Small Planet, she wrote:
"In 1971 I stressed protein complementarity because I assumed that the only way to get enough protein ... was to create a protein as usable by the body as animal protein. In combating the myth that meat is the only way to get high-quality protein, I reinforced another myth. I gave the impression that in order to get enough protein without meat, considerable care was needed in choosing foods. Actually, it is much easier than I thought.
"With three important exceptions, there is little danger of protein deficiency in a plant food diet. The exceptions are diets very heavily dependent on [1] fruit or on [2] some tubers, such as sweet potatoes or cassava, or on [3] junk food (refined flours, sugars, and fat). Fortunately, relatively few people in the world try to survive on diets in which these foods are virtually the sole source of calories. In all other diets, if people are getting enough calories, they are virtually certain of getting enough protein."[8]
stolen from
http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?26082-The-myth-abou...
also checkout
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-complementary-prote...
IRONY the myth was not created by a scienist yet many "scientists" quote it as science
Permalink Reply by Fruit fly on siply fruit got all esential amino acids we need in perfect amino acids pool, when we eat diversity of fruit especially and greens. ask biologist, I did and he give me agreement.
Permalink Reply by Sunshine on the amount of amino acids contained. the reason Quinoa for instance is called the most complete protein .
thing is why even eat proteins per se you want the amino acids and every amino acid is in fruits and veggies. and you can use the parts rather than having to break apart a protein by taking less energy and building faster and better the enzymes you need.
Permalink Reply by Verity on Thank you so so so much. I dont know whether or not it will make her budge at all- but I can at least show her the facts and I doubt she will be able to refute the evidence that quinoa is a complete protein under her standards.
Permalink Reply by Sunshine on Nasa uses it for this reason.
the inca lived off it as a staple crop for 5000 years. they had one semi domesticated animal the llama
Permalink Reply by Brian Baxter on I often wondered how they came up with all the "recommended daily allowances" I also noticed that the USA has a high calcium intake and yet high osteoporosis rates.
Permalink Reply by Greg Gallup on Its a bunch of BS. Read this (under the heading "protein metabolism" protein combining/complete proteins are discussed. But the whole article is a good read):
http://www.healthpromoting.com/Articles/articles/protein.htm
Permalink Reply by Diospyros on The body recycles most of its amino acids, and has a pool of them floating, thus you only need to get the necessary amino acids (proteins) over a day or more and still be complete. It does help that most of the foods we eat are complete in all the essential amino acids anyway!
Permalink Reply by Verity on To those of you asking why Im seeing such an insane dietician- Im currently in a residential center for eating disorders. They are 1000x more lenient and willing to work with me than any other program out there (except for maybe Mirasol which is too expensive and too far away) but still have their 'beliefs' however false, about nutrition. I need the help right now and if I had the ability I would be at a 801010 retreat but thats clearly not going to be my sponsers idea of recovery.
I am in NO WAY thinking or suggesting that I believe protein combining is correct or necessary- just wondering the actual facts that I can rebuttle this confused dietician with. I know it probably wont make her budge so Im doing my best to stick as closely to 801010 while Im here and hope that it doesnt impede my recovery (not being able to follow as closely as I'd like) and continue with this lifestyle once I return home because I know it is the right way. NO dietician is going to make this stubborn girl think anything but the truth!
Permalink Reply by WendyE on That is a really different situation. They're probably going to keep you there until you cooperate - OR prove you can thrive this way.
You may have to go along to get out. If you're staying vegan you'll still be at a good jumping off point once you leave.
Best luck -
Permalink Reply by Fruit fly on well, freelee nicely explain it, that who sais blah, blah about 5%recomendation and to make sure double it to 7%. Anyhow like this, dont remember percisely.
Anyhow, I was doing some research and I come along this idea, in which I will search for some facts and studies.
Obvioustly there is NO PROTEIN DEFICIENCY PER SE from whole food in enough calories even bananas will fullfill it, but you will be very small, but not defficient. My dietetitien as we talk, did a research and found that even waterfasting people, got enough protin in blood;) and appologise it. Anyhow, it is obvious, that it is metter of a long time.
My idea is, see meat eaters and vegans, both could have muscles, just varies in sizes of shoulders and total body size. We know we are what we eat, any food eater could be thin and small(calorie restriciton). To be thin and fit(Coz to be fit it is metter of efficiency of our own body, not of taking in animal source extra body, but more right fuel and fitness) is metter of fruit and vegetable(and enough of it, in the long run the body with some fitness accomodate and meintain it easily even without fitness). Fats keep the fat on, but I believe in the "good area" once you use powerlifting and raw diet and medium sugar and enough calories(meaing that you eat fat, but as you get stronger(take longer than 811). You maintain bigger size, but be good bodyshape, curves, but not that athleticaly fit as fruit up to 10%fat eater, obvioustly.
What always suprices me, why someone is bigger in size with shoulders and some smaller, and once play with vegan and meat, different in size. I strongly believe, it is not only hormonal think, it is package of things in food. One is, extra fat, extra protein and extra hormones(makes us bigger, aging faster-as we have bigger body than what it ment to be (as a frugivore eater). Yeah, I pesonally dont know any only 100%vegan monkeys, nor eating high fat all year long. But I know one thing, once you give some other food that we ment to eat originally, even for many generation, you will see that animal growth faster and even getting fatter as it is extra whatever source of calories that his classical activity and body need dont need.
I come a long, long way, in raw I experiment with every single method in raw and even with just calorie or portions and fitness and just relax method what ever. I personally see so much in skin younght visage, and teeth improvements and hair in eating enough, eating lowest fat but highers calories from fruit and get bussy and active and once in winter and the metabolism gets faster I would go little higher in fat, not much though or even more uptake the fruit calories and the body adapt, you get little chubbier, but it is good for winter and spring melt it away for summer body in this diet naturally:).
Just thust the nature, I won my battle for 5years with doctors, proving I can be sick in half year cooked and then litterary one year from that on fruit but most of all 100%raw. I believe for some it is better to eat little cooked and still law fat, I believe it is crutial to eat more calories just even if it mean more nuts and vegetable juices or vegetable.
I would not eat srouds and grains and milk on the first, and I would do B12 instead of meat (anyhow meat eating is not B12 asurance). Your cholesterol and extra fat, extra cholesterol and whatever in the meat and protein and will body store and build in bigger body in general, childrens grow faster and bigger. Your extra body that is unnatural (coz on a frugivore diet, that is 100%health no doubt about it) you simply will mentruate, as the body will not be able to do everything, coz we dont eat whole animals only parts and our body dont grow into animals we eat, nor into flower or fruit we eat. But vegans lose mentruation to min. or non, but maintain the ovulation and literary menstruate, but not visibally. This is so clear once you do waterfasting and your body get smaller, you mentruate even sooner, as you lose your extra body(from natural vegan lifestyle).
I still cannot say we need zero meat in our diet, but I strongly believe and have a hope for ethical reason that it is possible, and the evidence start to grow.
P.S. I got a disease that react nearly in a week with face nodes and glands enlargement and edema,and exzema and weight gain so fast once the balance is gone. I can tell you, I was on meateating way once a week or twice for dinner sometimes in raw as well. Brings me fast bigger body, that with the fatigue from disease was hard to change into muscles, and I felt like being on calorie restriction and excersize. Yeah with meat exchange for fruit you can get totally ribbed and what ever. But I believe not healthier and you will always live faster, that could be compromised with the undereating on classical diet. But with fruit diet, your wont get protein problem, could even grow in size, if you were eating meat but undereating on previous diet, but later everyone will accomodate to fruit fit, naturally slim body.
Plus the fat you have little or big body, is only acids stores to protect your organs from toxins or decomposition. For that I strongly believe, that eating enough for 2years of frugivore is better that waterfasting, but the way is little longer, but I strongly believe, that for your mind it is better.
Hope your recover soon and remember to eat enough (your braing will then go out of any eating disorder serotonin or other problem;) supplement B12, and I can assure you will be fine. For now, I know that you have to show them, you eat enough....I recommend you doing www.cronometer.com by which your can prove, that by eating enough of this you can have all the nutrients needed. 2500-2800kcal is min. for you. P.S. lots of greens and some seeds and nuts would be good for the start, to show them, you dont miss your protein(min. 0.7 for kg. of bodyweight your should be, which is easily achieveable on raw as well). Once you get home you can go even more calories from fruit(so they dont see it as overeating) and lover the fat to 10% and that will naturally come with 10%protein.
P.S dont forget to drink, sleep, get purpose in life other than perfect body, that give you perfect sould with this you get your power to sport out perfect body as well, if you fuel enough and right food for your brain as well(enough carbs;).
GL girl.
ednshell replied to Ashley DeHeer's discussion So what you guys think of john kolhers new video? bashing on 30bad?
Ashley DeHeer replied to Ashley DeHeer's discussion So what you guys think of john kolhers new video? bashing on 30bad?Ashley DeHeer replied to Ashley DeHeer's discussion So what you guys think of john kolhers new video? bashing on 30bad?
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