I got my blood work test result back.
First time ever I have not been anaemic since the age of 12. ( I am now 49 - that 37 years of aneamia from being under carbed - and they blamed it on the veggie lifestyle!)
However my B12 = 211 ng/L.
I asked my GP if she could give me B12 shots if necessary - she said NO.
Are you in the UK? Have you found this?
Any way around it?
Permalink Reply by Carlos169 on I must say again I had 260 pmol/L on the the 03/11/11. Went raw vegan on veges, some fruit and vege juices. NOT organic and washed. The reading on 25/11/11 was 418 so it was rising naturally without supplementation.
Permalink Reply by John Jasper on Carlos169,
With all of the confusing info, it's impossible not to be concerned but hopefully the article I posted earlier will help ease your mind. Unless you have a physical or mental condition that makes you suspect a deficiency, you're better off just eating a healthy diet with sufficient calories to meet your daily needs. Based on Dr Vetrano's evidence, you're blood test is telling you how much cyanocobalamin is moving around your system most likely on the way out and not how much B-12 is actually available to your body.
Much of modern western societies ills come from eating the wrong foods but more importantly eating the wrong combinations of foods such as combining protein and starches. The two require opposite chemical compositions of the gastric juices respectively strong acid and nearly neutral. The protein causes acid to be poured in which quickly destroys the ptyalin that digests the starch. In turn, the presence of starch inhibits the amount of juice poured in which inhibits the digestion of the protein. In the end, you have an indigestible meal that will be subject to bacterial rotting as it slowly passes through the digestive tract releasing numerous toxic substances which we'll recognise due to flatulence, tummy pain and foul stools but won't necessarily relate with the accompanying restless, unrefreshing sleep, furred tongue, bad breath, absence of desire for food, constipation, diarrhea, nervousness, etc.
Digestive disorders are easy to acquire but can take a while to get rid of but the answer is never supplementation. That is just media propaganda. Please laugh along with Bill Maher's Anti-Pharma rant on this subject in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHXXTCc-IVg
Apologies for having swallowed a textbook but this just happens to be the course I'm taking at the moment! :-)
Permalink Reply by Sarah Calothis on Sounds like a good course. Very funny video.
Permalink Reply by Adam on Hey John
Firstly the blood test doesn't tell you how much cyanocobalamin there is. There are numerous forms of cobalamin in the body that naturally occur and cyanocobalamin is not one of them. The body primarily uses methly, adenosyl and hydroxy forms. blood tests just tel you how much cobalamin there is in the serum.
Secondly, you are right that detecting circulating levels of a nutrient in the bloodstream doesn't tell you enough to indicate whether there is a deficiency. That is why other more sensitive markers are used to detect how the B12 is actually being used in the cells. Like methylmalonic acid testing. Vetranos article is seriously out of date.
Thirdly, Vetrano hasn't presented any 'evidence' at all. She just presents statements.
Take care
Adam x
Permalink Reply by John Jasper on Point taken, Adam. :-)
Permalink Reply by John Jasper on Adam,
Coming back to your point about other markers being used, I've yet to see anyone post here about a methylmalonic acid test. They are all talking about their blood tests. Are they actually talking about their acid test results?
Permalink Reply by Adam on Hey John
Most doctors don't do MMA testing unless asked specifically - unless they are forward thinking and actually bother to do research outside of their basic training and pharma funded CPD lectures.
But you can request it. And I always recommend that people do. Serum B12 is the standard indicator. Some more progressive doctors also ask for homocysteine, but not usually unless requested or there are CVD concerns.But you usually have to insist on an MMA test to get it. Especially in the UK on the NHS, since it is a more expensive test than serum b12.
Take care
Adam x
Permalink Reply by vegan witch Ⓥ on i love hearing this because it blows conventional thinking out of the water
totally impressive carlos
Permalink Reply by John Jasper on vegan witch,
I still cannot understand why people cannot comprehend the idea of getting nutrients from living plants. That is really what this site is all about - eating the foods that we're physiologically adapted to i.e. raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds instead of trying to exist on cooked foods and highly-synthetic processed "foods." If we turn around and start consuming highly-processed nutrient supplements regardless of their source, what have we gained?
I took several hours tonight trying to find evidence of how hydrocobalamin supplements are manufactured and finally realized that we're actually talking about HYDROXOcobalamin which made it a bit easier. A patent for a process that would (and probably did) replace the prior method for creating hydroxocobalamin is registered at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5338418.html which starts at the same basic process as the old version but leaves out the interim conversion to cyanocobalamine. It doesn't make it any more or less synthetic or highly-processed than the older method or even cyanocobalamine itself.
I can't rule out that other processes have been invented since but there is no obvious way to know which actual process is used by which manufacturer. In the end, the supplement is just a drug, medication or whatever you want to call it and it's affect on the body is not nutrition but medication.
My real point is don't get carried away by the hype!
Yours truly,
John
Permalink Reply by Casey on I really like your comments John, you're much better with words than me but they truly mirror my own thoughts on the matter. The natural world and our own bodies can give us everything we need to live a full and happy life and more... :)
Permalink Reply by Cat on Because of NHS guidelines most GP's will only give shots if you have dangerously low B12 level with severe neurological symptoms or test positive for pernicious anaemia. If the B12 level is under the testing lab guideline level they will give oral cyanocobalamin (the only oral form of B12 prescribed on the NHS as far as I know). Even with a low level Dr's are sometimes reluctant to prescribe.
B12 shots are not available to buy over the counter in the UK but you can legally buy them from other European countries and self inject. The Pernicious Anaemia Society has information on how to self inject or could possibly help you find a private doctor. http://www.pernicious-anaemia-society.org/
You have to be a member to access all their information but there's lots of free info in their forums.
Your B12 level does seem on the low end of normal. If I were in your position I would simply find a good quality oral supplement.
Permalink Reply by Sarah Calothis on Thank you Cat. I wonder why they are so reluctant with B12 - they are so happy to pump you full of everything else.
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