One of my YouTube subscribers recently asked "I keep seeing criticism of 811 on youtube from the paleo eaters who say you can't get EPA, DHA...on this diet"
To shed some light, here is my answer with a few added extras for those of you who like to look into the issue at a deeper level
EPA and DHA are made in animals this is true, but this also includes human animals - we make DHA and EPA in our bodies provided the correct ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fats is ingested.
Most diets (meat, raw, vegan, junk, macro etc etc) have massive amounts of omega 6 and hardly any omega 3 - this means that the ratio is not right for EPA/DHA conversion.
Nutritional experts argue over the ideal ratio but anthing from 1:1 to 1:5 of omega 3 to omega 6 should be fine (you can keep an eye on this using Cronometer. I currently get about 3-4g of each. I upped my omega 3s to match my omega 6 intake by adding 3 tsp of freshly ground flaxseed to one of my daily smoothies. (SAD diets tend to have a ratio of 1:14 or even 1:20!!)
Omega 3:6 ratios in fruits and vegetables and seeds:
Strawberries have a ratio of 1:1
Bananas have a ratio of 1.1
Blueberries are 1:1
Oranges are 1:3
Mangoes are 3:1
Flaxseeds are 5:1
Canteloupe 1:1
Some plant foods have bad ratios, sunflower seeds are 1:60!! Cashew nuts have no omega 3 at all, only omega 6. This would explain why raw vegans following the 'gourmet' style of raw food have problems and start supplementing with EPA/DHA because their Omega 3:6 ratio is terrible and wont allow for efficient conversion to EPA and DHA
It is not enough to simply increase the intake of Omega 3, you must also decrease omega 6. The consensus in the nutritional field is to make sure omega 6 intake does not go above 2% of daily calorie intake.
Plant sources of direct EPA
Also there are plant sources of EPA - there is a salad plant called Purslane. According to the Journal of the American College of Nutrition, one serving of purslane contains 300 to 400 milligrams of alpha-linolenic acid--four times as much as raw spinach and twice the amount in kale. More notably, it's a source of EPA, the long-chain omega-3 fatty acid commonly known as fish oil.
Here is an informative post from the Linus Pauling institute (Linus Pauling recived nobel prize for his nutritional research) http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/omega3fa/#metabolism
Even Harvard disagrees with the paleos
"There are two major types of omega-3 fatty acids in our diets: One type is alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), which is found in some vegetable oils, such as soybean, rapeseed (canola), and flaxseed, and in walnuts. ALA is also found in some green vegetables, such as Brussels sprouts, kale, spinach, and salad greens. The other type, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), is found in fatty fish. The body partially converts ALA to EPA and DHA.
We do not know whether vegetable or fish omega-3 fatty acids are equally beneficial, although both seem to be beneficial. Unfortunately, most Americans do not get enough of either type. For good health, you should aim to get at least one rich source of omega-3 fatty acids in your diet every day. This could be through a serving of fatty fish (such as salmon), a tablespoon of canola or soybean oil in salad dressing or in cooking, or a handful of walnuts or ground flaxseed mixed into your morning oatmeal."
Other research shows us that non-fish eaters (which includes veggies and vegans) actually have a more efficient conversion of Omega 3 (ALA) to EPA and DHA.
Welch AA, Bingham SA, Khaw KT. Estimated conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to long chain n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids is greater than expected in non fish-eating vegetarians and non fish-eating meat-eaters than in fish-eaters. J Hum Nutr Diet
I hope this adds some 'food for thought'.
Permalink Reply by WendyE on This is fantastic info. Every time I see a debate about "vegans can't get ____ in their diet" it turns out to be something that we don't NEED to eat anyway.
Thank you for posting!
Permalink Reply by Star Khechara on No worries :-)
Permalink Reply by Louise Botterill on this is really helpful thanks .
Permalink Reply by Star Khechara on Thanks Rawbert :-)
Permalink Reply by Kyle Kranz on Permalink Reply by Star Khechara on sure! can your ref me as Star Khechara www.thefaceliftdiet.com
and ref 30BaD too :-)
Permalink Reply by Culicomorpha on I should look up the reference for what I am about to say, but here I go. Last I checked the WHO (I believe) recommends 6-11% of total energy (kcal) to be polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) and put the minimal requirement at 2.5% of total kcal (2% omega-6, 0.5% omega-3, minimum). I hope this does not come across as a disagreement. Hell, my PUFAs intake is probably less than 3% of my total kcal...
Star Khechara can you please provide a source for the "make sure omega 6 intake does not go above 2% of daily calorie intake."
Permalink Reply by ghul on yeah what would happen if the percentage goes above 2% like say to 5 or 7 but the ratio would still be good?
thx for that post , found it very interesting Star Khechara
Permalink Reply by Star Khechara on well if you omega 6 went up to 7% then to be in the correct ratio to omega 3 - and if you were aiming for a ratio of 1:1 - you'd be eating 7% of each making your total intake of just omega 3 and 6 14% of your totaly calories. This is not even including any other fats yoou may have consumed (monounsaturates from avocado or saturated fats from coconut).
The PUFAs are not your total fats, even if they were you are still over-eating on fat at 14% of your total calories - the 80-10-10 program recommends that NO MORE than 10% of calories come from fat.
So if if your ratio is impeccable, you would still be overeating on total fat.
You only need tiny amounts of these fats, I get 3-4g of each wich gives me just over the generally accepted required amount for these 2 nutrients
So you need to take into account several points:
On this program we aim to have no more than 10% of TOTAL daily fat in our diet, fat yields 9 kcal per gram so for argument sake you are eating 2000kcal you don't want anymore than 200kcal coming from fat which is equal to 22g of total fat.
This is a MAXIMUM and not a target to aim for, most pros on this site get about 5-7% of their daily calories from fats.
There is is no official RDA for omega 3 and 6 fats but the consensus is that we need 0.5g of omega 3 and 2g omega 6 (a 1:4 ratio). this would translate as 2g of each for a 1:1 ratio. This is equal to 4.5 kcal and 18kcal resepctively.
So you can see how little is needed. even at 2g each you are only having 4g out of the maximum of 22g (on a 2000kcal diet).
On an everage day, I eat 7% of my total calories as fat, getting about 18-22g (depending on calorie intake, which is usually a lot more than 2000kcal). The total fat is broken down as follows:
4-5g of of monounsaturates
7g of polyunsaturates (PUFAs) - 3g omega 3 and 4g of omega 6
I eat way more omega 3 and 6 then mainstream science says yet my total fat remians at 7% or less of my total calorie intake.
Permalink Reply by ghul on yeah what would happen if the percentage goes above 2% like say to 5 or 7 but the ratio would still be good?
thx for that post , found it very interesting Star Khechara
Permalink Reply by Star Khechara on I would provide it but I was reading journal articles online and accidentally shut down my tabs so I will have to go scavenge for it again.
The WHO has the ratio set at 1:4 in favour of omega 6 which is fine as I stated that it should be from 1:1 to 1:5 (3:6)
Remember that a lot of mainstream science is governed by the food industry, who promote a high fat diet. If we used WHO as our only refernce source then this entire 80/10/10 program would be 'debunked'. However we know that nutritional science is mostly to be taken with a pinch of salt (or not lol)
Rather than just go to the WHO it is important to read widely around a topic, when I research I maye read at least 10-20 seperate research papers for 1 big article (I am a writer by profession).
There's masses of research out there and its up to us to make our own informed choices.
In essence, the post was to debunk what paleos say about vegan diets not containing EPA and DHA, it wasn't really a post about the ideal amount in, in grams, of omega fats we should be eating - that was just an aside.
Perhaps that will be my next topic :-)
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