I came across this one woman who was vegan for quite some time, 811 for a year, but then according to her, developed a host of problems like cystic acne, grayish hair, poor skin, etc. Upon going paleo (which has been for the past month or something), she says she feels a lot better.
Her vitamin D levels were really low and B12 was borderline/low. So...what happened? It's kind of disconcerting to read because it seems like she gave the 811 lifestyle a fair shot for a bit. Did she not do it for long enough? Was it her deficiencies? What's there to learn from her experience?
Here's her letter explaining the switch, her interview with Dan about her health problems while 811, and her former YouTube channel from when she was raw vegan. Sorry for all of the links, but they can explain her background far better than me for those interested in commenting. =)
Hey you can become seriously deficient in B12 after some time as a vegan. Not that eating animal products is a guarantee that you get your level up, but in this day and with a a strict vegan diet, you are getting next to none, if any B12 at all.
Oh, I'm quite certain her deficiencies existed before her dietary changes and were, in many ways, likely unrelated to her diet.
I was sad, too... I was cheering for her, having listened to the interview before hearing about her diet switch to paleo. I wish her happiness, I really do. But it saddens me that she seems to think she found it by consuming meat. I've been vegan for 7 years, so for me personally I couldn't imagine a scenario where I thought going back to eating animals was the right choice.
don't know about this one (because i haven't looked into it), but those who fail on veg either don't know what they are doing or do weird things.
a classic is lierre keith who manages to accomplish both as many have pointed out (there are several threads about her on 30bad). you can also read messina's analysis here:
(that thread by B is a good one, btw).
if you want sensible nutritional evidence from real research, it's worth spending time here:
(you'll see it is vegan all the way)
People gotta get Sun, I agree.
There are many reasons why you can fail on HCRV lifestyle. You can basicly ruin anything if you do not do it properly. But this is NO reason to worry, guys, because this lifestyle is proven to work. You just need to work for it so that it can work for you. Do not listen to people who dont do it or dont know how to do it or dont do it the way it needs to be done like Dan the man. Listen to people like Hurley, Free, Chris Califano, Mike Arnstein, ...
I almost died doing the work, literally. But I came out the other end with a greater knowledge than most.
Dan the "man" has tremendous issues and is a joke
What happens when people eat all that paste and cheese, often their body is unable to sufficiently derive enough nutrients and calories from the fruits and greens to keep their body weight up. This can really confound a person's efforts and cause problems like it did for her. As far as vitamin D, who knows how much Sun she was getting. Did she say? Also she said that her body fat percentage was so low that she wasn't able to store vitamin D. That is her opinion probably. D is definitely stored in body fat, but it's also stored in the liver. At any rate, the dramatic weight loss generally occurs in people that are fairly new to the diet coming from a highly congesting diet which can cause certain problems I would suppose. It didn't with me, but I would suppose that it could. At least that is what she is claiming.
Obviously low Vitamin D is bad, but that would be her fault for not researching for 5 minutes to find out you need to get out in the Sun to get it, and that you can't get Vitamin D in the winter in places where there is anything more than a very mild winter. Overly frequent showing also decreases Vitamin D produced. Animal products are a source, but even in meateaters research shows the sun is the most significant source.
Quite true. The Sun is the source of all our joy, health and happiness. There is none other.
This is very strange. I think we all need to remember that not all fruit is perfect. Certain fruits seem to cause a lot of problems for people. I used to have cystic acne, dry skin, intense stomach pains, joint problems, foggy-headedness, and tooth problems until I cut out ALL nightshades, citrus, nuts/seeds, high-fat, and high-GI foods.
But just because certain fruits are bad, this does not mean all fruits are bad. I wish beginners could see this distinction so that they wouldn't get so frustrated.
Even in her tumblr article, I couldn't find any convincing arguments against fruit.
Now I’m reading that there are links to cancer and sugar. I’m not sure how true that is, but wow, could I have GIVEN people cancer because I wasn’t educated enough?
Of course there is a link between cancer and sugar! Because cancer runs off of glycogen, just like every other cell in our body. If you starve cancer, you starve your own cells too. This is common scientific knowledge, not theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose). The answer is not to starve cancer, but to bolster your immune system in order to fight off cancer.
Additionally, I do have systemic candida and will get cystic acne, rashes, hives, mental fog, headaches and some other personal, ahem, symptoms if I eat anything too high on the glycemic index.
Is 40-60, the average GI for fruit, too high on the glycemic index? Because according to GI diets, anything below 55 is "low" on the glycemic scale. Watermelon and dates are the only exception that sometimes have high GIs.
It is not as simple as, “cells run on sugar, eat sugar! Fat will block the sugar, so don’t eat fat, then all the sugar you want is ok!
No it's not that simple, but glycogen is still the primary source of fuel for all cells in your body, according to modern scientific knowledge - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose. She then explains this whole process later...
Too much sugar is stored as glycogen. Once glycogen stores are filled (and stores have a small capacity), it’s converted into fat. The same thing happens with protein. It’s broken down into peptides, then amino acids, then excess amino acids are converted to fats or sugars and go through the process I just mentioned. Even what I just said is an over-simplification.
So your body uses as much sugar as it can, then stores around 1500 calories in the pancreas, then stores the rest as fat, so that it can be converted back to sugar later. And then you can breakdown amino acids for extra sugar during deprivation. And sugar is somehow bad? What?!
Key point here... regardless of whether you eat sugar or not, your body still tries to maintain appropriate blood sugar levels.
The more fruit I ate, the more acne I got.
From personal experience, I realized that all fruit does not cause acne, only certain fruits like citrus and nightshades.
My teeth, eyes, hair, skin, hormone and vitamin levels and my fertility became extremely messed up.
Something is very wrong here. I have perfect blood levels of everything after eating low-fat vegan for over two years. What is she doing differently??
And I can understand that she wants to eat a diet that is very satisfying, but I don't think she will be fully satisfied with meat. At the beginning of the article, she indicated how much she hates meat...
I never really enjoyed meat as a child because it grossed me out to think about where it came from.
Anyways, these are my thoughts.