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So is there any solid scientific evidence showing that vaccinating children is to be avoided? I'm not looking for circumstantial evidence, and not for scientific work that has been debunked like the famous 1998 andrew wakefield study. I'm also not looking for ethical arguments against vaccinations. I'm looking for valid evidence.

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The Andrew Wakefield study has been debunked like the china study has been debunked.  Propaganda by those with an agenda.  It was a smear campaign.  You don't think the pharma industry would sit back while such a credible Doctor came out with such damning evidence against their product do you.

http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/new-published-study-verifies-andre...

 

Whenever there is an official story that is in any way suspect, the internet is excellent in providing evidence opposing the official story.  One would think this would be the case with the Wakefield study would be a good example of this.  Unfortunately, there is tons of evidence damning Wakefield's study, and I can't find any good info indemnifying him.  Maybe he had good intentions, and maybe he was even right about some or all of his claims.  But that doesn't change the apparent fact that his 1998 study was fatally flawed.  His study has been shown to not pass the rigors of scientific method, and I believe that it would be a bad move on anyone's part to try to use him as an example in a debate about immunization.

To compare Wakefield to Campbell seems off the mark.  The China Study has not been debunked like the Wakefield study.  Wakefield has been stripped of his medical license, while Campbell continues to be held in high esteem, He teaches at a university level, and continues to publish studies as a nutritional biochemist.

I did find it interesting that there seems to be some support for the vaccine-autism link in the courts, as described in the link you provided.  That's good info.  Thank you for providing it :)

Yes it's funny and there's very little to find about the CDC employees who were caught taking bribes, including one who was there doing a study debunking the autism / mercury link. Funny that. I have written articles linking to major news paper stories that 6 months or 2 years later have disappeared down the fascist memory hole. Literally they no longer exist, and existence of them is denied. One in particular was from the Toronto Sun, which exposed the link between Rotavirus and the spread of that disease. Basically the rotavirus vaccine gives you Rotavirus, and babies shed it in their nappies, which then gives that disease to younger babies too young to receive the vaccine, who may be in the house or have contact with the "shedding" kid and it's very dangerous, and (edit) *can* kill them. Then they say "oh you see we have to lower the age of vaccination because like whooping cough the young ones don't have "protection" (no evidence of that!) therefore the cause is lack of vaccination, not that we are introducing this virus where it would never otherwise be".  That article disappeared. GONE. There many, many other cases.

Anyway, please check my other threads. I am no expert on this, in reality there are many many much better sources than me that's for sure, but I have my own view on it, condensed from years of reading and research, and all I want you to do is go and investigate for yourself from the great sources out there, and not from some half baked noodle on a website who has an opinion but from real doctors, who in many cases put their lives and careers on the line by speaking out about this openly. Dr. Russell Blaylock has great articles on vaccination. And while I'm not fan of Natural News when it comes to food and nutrition, their exposure on vaccines and fluoridation is usually very accurate. Read their articles, then confirm the sources. More than a few links there have disappeared too by the way.

(edit not calling myself a half baked noodle :) haha - referring to badly put together articles that discredit and anti-vax movement...!)

I understand if you do not want to use him as a source but his work and talks are particularly compelling, this is why they went after him with a smear campaign.  Go to about 14 minutes in the video above to see how another good scientist was also a victim of a smear campaign.  This is more in line with what happened to Dr. Wakefield.  Powerful entities at work here with huge economic interests as well as more sinister interests.  Ralph Nader famously sued and won a suit against car company General Motors because they harassed him with death threats etc., this was because he was pushing seat belts in cars and it was going to cost them too much money.  There is no line these companies will not cross.  And I have also seen redeeming articles disappear on Andrew Wakefield.

Thanks ednshell! interesting info.

I also believe that Wakefield is legit, there was no reason for him to fake that study. It's been confirmed multiple times since. I think rather he touched on a core piece of their technology which is through gut bacteria. I actually agree with Dr. Russell Blaylock that the anti vax movement solely going after mercury as a cause is a mistake - yes mercury is an obvious one and certainly highly dangerous in any amount and extremely dangerous in the amounts being administered for body weight - there is no nutritional requirement or use for mercury in the body! but there are many ingredients in these things and from my research my opinion now is that they are designed to work synergistically with each other and with compounds normally present within the body to generate certain electro-chemical reactions which is what causes autism. The brain and body is of course electro-chemical. In other words it's a lot more complex than just the mercury.

Everyone has seen those comedic sketches of the mad professors lab where he mixes two or three apparently inert compounds together and blows himself up. We know Sarin gas is a relatively toxic nitrous compound but when they add the sodium fluoride it ratchets up the potency like 1000 times and makes this super deadly concentrated poison. I think personally that there are synergistic reactions and relationships going on between the chemicals in the vaccines and inside our bodies that are having this effect. It explains why many babies go immediately into shock, or people vomit immediately after receiving this procedure, or have severe reactions minutes or hours after. It's more than the sum of it's individual parts and nobody fully understands it yet, but I'm willing to bet certain key 'scientists' at these pharmaceutical companies know.

His study into gut health I think was rattling chains at the dragons door, and I think he honestly didn't realise what he was getting into and was very unprepared to deal with the venom that came his way. The wikileaks cables I mentioned explain a lot why however. Since Wakefield did his study recent studies have coming out saying things like "We have to re-evaluate bacteria in immune system health" "90% of the immune system resides in the gut", etc.

You are right - Wakefield is legit - many recent studies back up his original findings, the whole story was massively obfuscated by the British establishment. In fact, Wikileaks recently released government documents (I believe) that clearly shows that the British Government has known for decades that vaccines are trash and do nothing good and lots of bad. I don't have those links right now I've got to get back to work, but go look it up folks. They know exactly what they are doing. Pure evil. Sounds crazy on it's face, but do the research, dig deep enough, and you will find organizations like DARPA, one of the most evil entities on the planet in all of history, lovingly involved. Good people. Good times. (!) Hey we bombed Vietnamese children with Napalm and Agent Orange, and we needlessly bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nuclear weapons but hey, you can trust us with your kids immune system we're the government! What could go wrong? Before anyone says they're not the government, yes they are. They write the bills, they buy their congressmen or parliamentarians. Fascism is defined as the merger of corporate and state. Hitler took over the corporations, today the corporations took over the state. Same difference.

Haha, OH. MY. GOD. Is there? hahaha. It's great you're asking, and my laughing is not against you at all, it's the question itself, all respect to you for asking it though, don't get me wrong. It's just that it's like asking a Libertarian "Is there any evidence of government abuses towards innocent citizens through history?" hahaha. It's the same with vaccines, is there any evidence they do harm. Well in fact there is pretty much ONLY evidence they do harm and NO evidence they do good. That is if you adhere to the principles laid down during the freaking renaissance, that logic, reason and rationale should be the governing forces behind a human beings activities not superstition. ie. what we used to know as science but which today has become a joke resembling science in name only.

The first thing you have to understand is that vaccines DID NOT "save" the world from communicable diseases as you've probably heard from government and government protected (corporations) sources your whole life. Those diseases were dying out of their own accord due to a variety of factors - natural immunity, improved sanitation, access to clean water, improved nutrition (wider variety of foods / access to foods). That is a 100% historical fact. Please check my other threads where I have posted about this. What the pharmaceutical companies did was literally take credit for something they had nothing to do with. Like when the economy is good, it's because of the government, when it's bad, it's because of the "free market". They simply capitalized on an existing trend. I posted links to charts about this, which I can confirm from solid literature represent actual referenced historical data. I repeat: No vaccine has EVER provably or even anecdotally reduced infections or deaths from infections of ANY disease. There is however real evidence to show the contrary - that vaccines ensure the survival of a dying out disease, and in the case of whooping cough the vaccine was withdrawn at first for some years precisely because it caused outbreaks.

I recommend a great book "Dissolving Illusions" by  Suzanne Hyphries MD, and Roman Bystrianyk. There are stacks, and stacks of other excellent books by *experts* in toxicology, by MD's, by pediatricians, historians etc. This book kind of covers all those bases. But there are so many goods ones. Try checking out Dr. Tenpennies website, she is really very good. http://www.drtenpenny.com

Seriously, you should buy at least one good vaccine exposing book and read it before you do anything.

So the first thing is as I said in the first paragraph, the notion that vaccines stopped these various diseases is absolutely false. Second is that no vaccine has ever been proven to be safe OR effective. Again, check my other threads, where I have lots of links and other info which I don't want to retype.

Last thing breifly is just to use common sense. Look at the freaking ingredients on those things. Mercury, Formaldehyde, Alluminium, and they certainly aren't vegan.

So first port of call from my point of view would be Dr. Tenpennys website, then a good book, like what I recommended or similar. The pro vaxers harp on about herd immunity - a disproven unscientific conspiracy theory and nothing more - about "saving lives" - Just look at the amount of children Bill Gates has managed to paralyse in India.

All of this is to say nothing of the depopulation behind vaccines. Vaccines are an avenue into the blood stream of innocent infants and the evil powers of the world have not missed out on realizing that. Check out the SV40 cancer virus which was knowingly inserted into millions of polio virus vaccines in the US for decades before being shut down. A congressional enquiry found that millions were likely infected with an unknown number of cancers and an unknown number of resultant deaths from those cancers. This is no joke. I have a sister who is severely disabled from receiving a loving vaccine. Caveat Emptor.

One of my favourite actors made this brilliant video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueKVez4W54g

There is so much to this issue, and it goes so deep, I could go on about it for days, but the bottom line is be wise, take the cautionary principle. Your child or whoever is wondering about the vaccine has an immune system and it should not be f**ked with by moronic weasels in labs who have no idea what they are doing at best, and have malicious purposes at worst. I have a friend who was on the ground in Haiti after the disaster and she told me that there were huge delays getting food and water in through the airport, and finally the UN plane arrived and unloaded crates of vaccines, they were allowed through first, THEN the food and water was allowed through. Do you know why? Do you think the American elites and the British elites just feel so much love and compassion for all those black Haitians that they realised in their wisdom it was MUCH more urgent and essential for those homeless, starving and dehydrated Haitians to receive their VACCINE, instead of water and food? Be skeptical. Be critical. Be VERY skeptical of vaccines. Do not trust any doctor who tells you they are good they haven't got the slightest fricken clue.

DO NOT be pressured into a decision. Err on the side of caution if nothing else. You're warned that these things are very very dangerous, have no beneficial purpose, and have a definite malicious purpose. Now it's up to you to go and prove or disprove to your own satisfaction as an adult what I have said and other things.

Absolutely, they particularly did this with Polio and really if you think about it Polio is their big Ace card they pull out if anyone questions vaccination. The fraud behind re-naming Polio is also covered in the book I recommended, many others cover it as well. I like this book because it's got lots and lots of references.

Thanks!  I'm looking forward to checking out the books you mentioned.

I enjoyed the Rob Schneider vid. It gives some good ethical arguments (which I'm not concerned with at the moment). There's one claim that it makes that I'd like help with.  Maybe you can guide me here, since you seem quite knowledgeable on the subject:

the vid says that "dosens of published research papers say that vaccines and autism are linked".  I've been googling this subject for a couple of days and haven't come across any of these papers (except for the wakefield study).  Where are these studies?  I'm looking forward to scanning through some of the links in the thread Windlord posted, and looking through your earlier posts.  But so far, I'm coming up empty.

Hey man. The point of the Rob Schneider video about vaccine courts was not to do with ethics, but simply a common sense observation - which is that if they have to construct this rats nest disaster of a human rights situation to obfuscate the issue that to me is a pretty freaking deafening alarm bell that something is not right. Good works are done in the sunshine. Evil is done in the dark.

I'm pretty busy at the mo, but here's a couple of links you're asking for. Bottom line bro, just use common sense. You don't inject kids with more mercury that a grown man should receive in a whole year. Mercury is dangerous, it's really really dangerous. Do check my other threads as well. The one Windlord recommended is great, I didn't know that was there myself (reasonably new to this forum).

http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/06/mercury-and-autism-together-agai...

(Links to Huffington Post. It's a Harvard study).

From memory this lecture references numerous studies you can then go and look up, not specifically about autism only but the whole range of issues already touched on. A great lecture, very very well worth watching all the way through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7iqvwjHY_0

Note on the above link - conflicts of interests are not merely ethical concerns. If you find out your congressman is taking millions in bribes from mexican drug cartels so that he will turn a blind eye to the local bank laundering their money, you don't say "well that's an ethical issue, I want to know if I can trust the guy".... the fact is, it's pretty damning evidence that the dude is not above board isn't it... and you probably don't want to do business with him or vote for him, for example.

Go to http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/

and search for the article: Vaccines, Neurodevelopment and Autism Spectrum Disorders

His blog doesn't seem to have links to the individual articles, which would prevent them from showing up in searches. Lots of references to studies for this article.

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/1547691X.2010.545086

http://www.naturalnews.com/041897_mmr_vaccines_autism_court_ruling....

http://www.naturalnews.com/042864_measles_outbreak_mumps_vaccines_s...

If you don't like Natural News, don't whinge check the sources at the bottom of the article to confirm for yourself. I also don't like them for many things, but whatever, the truth is the truth when it's the truth! It's a really worthwhile, accurate article to read. I mean accurate not only in detail but in context in which that detail is presented.

22 Studies that show vaccines can cause autism:

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/09/22-medical-studies-that-show-va...

Sorry bro I don't have time for more, but good luck with it. Be highly skeptical about monkey head doctors in stupid white coats with degrees from pedophile organizations who want to inject stuff into your kids made by companies that were literal departments of IG Farben.

Cool!  I really appreciate the thoroughness of your replies and all the links!

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