Hi, I´m eating high carb low fat vegan diet - consisting of bananas, dates, sweet fruits, lettuce and occasionally steamed vegetables for the past 3 months, but according to Cronometer I don´t get enough calcium - and because I already have osteoporosis I´m really afraid I will loose even more bone mass and develop problems with teeth as well.
I´m also underweight (BMI 16, 5´5" and 94 lbs) and although I really try to eat as much as I can it seems to me that I just keep on loosing more and more weight.
Could you give me some tips on how to gain weight and what to eat to get my calcium in?
Thanx :-)
Permalink Reply by Marianna Sekacova on Yes I know dark greens are much more nutritious than lettuce but as I said before - I really tried to eat as much of them as possible - I forced myself to drink juices and smoothies but I would feel so sick after doing that and I had diarrhea. I don´t know why I´m reacting like this to dark greens- it´s as I said - probably because of my weak digestive tract.
Anyways thanx for the advice - right now I´m eating 2300 cal a day. Should I double it?? Is it possible to actually eat that much?? :-D :-D I will try to stuff myself all day long. :-)
Permalink Reply by Peter Csere on Don't worry, you can get plenty of calcium eating tender leafy greens and calcium-rich fruit such as citruses and papaya. Dr. Graham doesn't recommend dark greens due to the problems you have described and others.
2300 is below the minimum required for women on 30BAD. Try for 3000 and you may stop losing weight.
Permalink Reply by Reed on Peter you are repeatedly misquoting Dr. Graham.
He highly recommends dark leafy greens.
This is a Direct Quote from Page 26 of Dr. Graham's 80/10/10 book:
"Some people adopt a totally fruitarian diet, meaning they attempt to live exclusively on fruits, but I do not recommend this practice. Dark-green leafy vegetables provide minerals and other nutrients essential for optimum nutrition and health"
Permalink Reply by Peter Csere on I never quoted Dr. Graham, so how could I have misquoted him?
Let's just ignore the oxalic acid content in dark greens, and tell people to eat 3 pounds a day of them so they can get a calcium deficiency, shall we?
"Dark-green leafy vegetables provide minerals and other nutrients essential for optimum nutrition and health" "
I do not disagree with this statement. It is quantitatively correct; how could I? So I don't understand what your point was.
Eggs provide minerals and other nutrients. These minerals and nutrients are essential to optimum nutrition and health. This is a quantitatively correct statement. It also does not in any way imply that we should eat eggs.
Permalink Reply by Peter Csere on Now, let me quote something from Dr. Graham that's actually RELEVANT to our discussion:
"You may have noticed that I described the frugivorous diet as on consisting primarily of fruits, with the addition of tender greens. Where do the rest of the vegetables fit into this picture?
This may shock you, but by every indication, our digestive physiology was designed to process the soft, water-soluble fibers in fruits and tender leaves, almost exclusively.
It is true that cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, kale, collards, brussels sprouts, and cabbage are loaded with nutrients, including soluble fiber. But they also contain cellulose and other tough, difficult-to-digest fibers. These vegetable are best digested when eaten in their youngest and most tender state. For best results, they must be thoroughly chewed or mechanically predigested via the use of a blender or shredding device.
To assimilate completely, we need to digest completely, and every time we eat foods that are more difficult to digest, we compromise our nutrition and, over time, our health. To be sure, we are capable of swallowing vegetation that contains cellulose and other rough, insoluble fibers, but such foods put a great load on our organs of digestion and elimination."
Source: "The 80-10-10 Diet" pg. 29
I did not misquote Dr. Graham in ANY way. It is clear that he feels the diet should be based on fruits and TENDER greens. Please do not suggest that people eat 3 lbs of juiced/blended kale a day, that is just lame. Come on, man. Dr. Graham did not say "You should drink 3 cups of kale juice and put a pound of it in your green smoothie every day," he said "You should eat fruit and tender greens almost exlusively, and IF you want to eat cruciferous veggies, you can only really digest them well if you blend/shred/juice them." You could twist this around and use it to promote some David Wolfe-ist program of juicing and blending and whatever but that's the supplement mentality, and it's clearly NOT what Dr. Graham believes in.
Permalink Reply by Reed on Dr. Graham repeatedly states to Eat DARK LEAFY GREENS in his 80/10/10 book. If you want to ignore it that's fine but I'll help you one more time.
Quote from Page 26 of
"Some people adopt a totally fruitarian diet, meaning they attempt to live exclusively on fruits, but I do not recommend this practice. Dark-green leafy vegetables provide minerals and other nutrients essential for optimum nutrition and health"
Quote Page 67:
"Green leaves possess the highest and most complete range of micro-nutrients. This is one of the primary reasons we must have them often in our diet for the best health. "
Quote Page 96:
"Eating 80% of our calories in the form of uncooked simple carbohydrates can become easy and natural once we learn to eat a moderate amount of nuts and seeds, all the green leafy vegetables we care for, and great quantities of whole, fresh, ripe, in-season fruit"
Quote page 166:
"You can generally accomplish this with two or three large fruit meals during the day, plus a large salad in the evening. Fruit predominates heavily, yet you consume as many greens as you like."
Quote page 167:
"In general, fruits are considerably higher in calories than vegetables and leafy greens. So it makes sense that most of the raw-food diet be made up of fruit, complemented by large salads to provide essential such as sodium, potassium, calcium, and magnesium."
Quote page 233:
"I do not recommend an all-fruit diet. In my experience, we must eat vegetables, especially dark leafy greens, in order to experience optimum nutrition and ideal health. I recommend that 2 to 6% of our total calories consumed, on average, come from greens. In terms of volume, this would mean somewhere between 1 and 4 heads of lettuce, or to 1/4 to 1 pound of kale, or to 1/2 to 2 pounds of spinach, per day (depending on how many calories you normally consume). "
4 heads of lettuce? That's 8-9 pounds a day of lettuce :) Also note he recommends Kale and Spinach about a 12 times in his book.
Permalink Reply by Peter Csere on Keep in mind, that the calcium rec. on Cronometer is based on SAD. Guess what? Calcium needs VARY GREATLY from person to person, since it depends a lot on how acidic your diet is. SAD folks need a LOT more calcium, since their diet is so acidic that calcium is constantly being pulled from their bones to compensate.
So don't worry about cronometer. But DO worry about what you're eating. Lots of varieties of fruit and tender greens will ensure you hit the calcium-rich ones. Stay away from dark greens - they are NOT a significant part of 80-10-10. If you eat dark greens regularly you are setting yourself up for problems - just take a look a the nutritional science. This is a classic example of people paying attention to nutrients but not anti-nutrients - one thing Dr. Graham rants about in his book.
If you don't get enough calories, you will not get enough nutrients either, and you will reach an unhealthy weight. 2300 is not enough. 2500 is a minimum, and most women find they need more. Try 3000 and I can guarantee you will feel much better.
For osteoporosis, the #1 way to fight this (provided your diet is not acidic and you are getting calcium) is resistance training. Joints won't strengthen unless they are stressed. Impact exercises such as running is also a great help. If you don't use it, you lose it. Sedentary old women get osteoporosis easily, because they don't do anything. Do some pilates, some calisthenics, or go to the gym. Start running. Good luck!
Oh yeah, and if you have crohn's, you will need to read this article as it talks about the root causes of Crohns (the strange toilet posture that we have only been using for 150 years) and how to stop the problem at the ROOT rather than combating the symptoms. naturesplatform.com/health_benefits.html
The best part is, you don't need to buy anything - just remember: Feet on the seat, not on the floor.
Permalink Reply by Reed on Reply by Peter Csere
Stay away from dark greens - they are NOT a significant part of 80-10-10. If you eat dark greens regularly you are setting yourself up for problems - just take a look a the nutritional science. This is a classic example of people paying attention to nutrients but not anti-nutrients - one thing Dr. Graham rants about in his book.
This is a Direct Quote from Page 26:
"Some people adopt a totally fruitarian diet, meaning they attempt to live exclusively on fruits, but I do not recommend this practice. Dark-green leafy vegetables provide minerals and other nutrients essential for optimum nutrition and health"
Peter,
According to your mentor Dr. Graham. Dark-green leafy vegetables ARE a necessary part of 80/10/10.
Permalink Reply by Marianna Sekacova on Hello everybody, thank you so much for your replies and suggestions - I know that for now I really can´t eat dark greens because my body´s reactions to them are really bad. I tried to eat lots of citrus fruits - but I have the same problem with it - again diarrhea. So I guess if these foods give me diarrhea - I probably can´t digest them well and I also probably will not get the calcium from these foods - so I will not eat them.
I bought Dr. Kleins book - where he suggest that in healing phase (when healin Crohn´s) I should eat only sweet fruits and tender greens and thats what I will do, hope it will help. I will also stick to taking my calcium carbonate supplement - I know it is not the best thing but until I can´t eat citruses and baby kale & spinach - I can´t think of better alternative.
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