Raw Meat Diets for Cats & Dogs?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Peter Csere on May 15, 2012 at 1:59am

Yo Adriano, many bears eat a diet composed of mostly berries. Panda bears eat mostly bamboo. Also if the bread contains l-cysteine or mono- or di-glycerides it is not vegetarian. 

Your dogs will thrive on a vegan diet. Dogs are omnivores. They can synthesize their own taurine and do not need meat to thrive. 

Cats are a little trickier. I have yet to see a recommendation for vegan diet for cats that does not involve the Science Diet approach - i.e. nutrient devoid fillers (cooked grains) supplemented with synthetic nutrients. Forget about raw. Still doin' my research. I want to be able to feed my cats a diet they will thrive on without having to kill anything. Notice the word thrive, so cooked grains are out of the question and so are synthetic nutrients. Currently I feed them raw meat from a local organic farm. I know I shouldn't own them in the first place but hey I got them years ago and if I gave them to a shelter the shelter would just feed them cafo kibblez, so I'd be doing more harm than by keeping them. So I'm in a bind, and I'm trying to feed them while causing as little harm as possible. This means eggs for some meals, so I can reduce the amount of meat until I find an alternative. 

Permalink Reply by Rachael Courter on May 15, 2012 at 2:21am

Do eggs contain taurine?

Permalink Reply by Greenmama on May 15, 2012 at 2:53am

You can always let your cats outdoors to hunt birds and rodents.  That is probably not environmentally ethical either, but they are carnivores and then you are not involved in the industrial meat/ egg complex.   Even local organic farms practices are not good for animals, as I'm sure you know. I no longer keep cats for these reasons.

Permalink Reply by Peter Csere on May 15, 2012 at 3:57am

Indeed. The only problem is that with the density in most residential areas, domestic housecats hunting for their own food would pose a existential threat to local ecosystems. Mice and moles and wabbits would be virtually extinguished, along with songbirds. Hawk and other predator bird populations would suffer as a result, as well as wild carnivores such as mountain lions, cougars, and fisher cats. (Although the larger predators tend to prey on housecats so not as much of a problem for them.) Decline in small bird population would result in not only a decline in predator birds but skyrocketing insect populations, etc etc etc. I've thought about raising "feeder mice" to feed the kitties and that way at least the cats are doing the killing like a wild animal would be etc. etc. but the thought of being a factory farmer does not appeal to me. Ethics are tricky - do I pay someone else to raise the animal and kill it, or do I raise the animal myself and let the cats kill it? Surely letting the cats kill it causes more suffering, etc etc see where I'm going - complicated ethical discussion of the lives of obligate carnivores. Some people advocate that synthetic taurine is a perfectly acceptable way to completely circumvent the problem. I disagree as I have read extensively about synthesized nutrients. See my post below about what Captain Kirk would say. 

I believe that eggs contain a small amount of taurine as well as other amino acids that cats require. I understand that "humane slaughter" is an oxymoron, but I am trying to minimize harm by doing the best that I can with my current level of knowledge. I know that I shouldn't keep cats but the only way to "get rid of them" would surely result in, like I said, CAFO kibblez for the rest of their livezies. 

I am open-minded and I believe that like all science, biochemistry is evolving. One day we might understand that obligate carnivores actually can survive on a diet of vegetation with no synthetic supplements. With strong intentions, perhaps the relevant biblical quotations will eventually ring true - "the lion will once again lay with the lamb" etc 

Permalink Reply by Peter Csere on May 15, 2012 at 3:51am

So I intentionally shorten the life of one animal, and predispose it for chronic dis-eases, in order to prevent the killing of other animals? I don't want to play that game. 

Captain James T. Kirk (U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701) used to say that if you are playing a rigged game, change the rulz. If I have to choose between poisoning one animal and killing another, I would call that a rigged game. I refuse to play that game. I am still trying to figure out how to change the rules. 

I mean, of course, unless there's research out there that shows every species besides us are magically immune to the toxins present in cooked foods and the deleterious effects (or ineffectiveness) of synthetic nutrients. Please, show me that research, so that I may happily conclude that the game is not rigged after all. 

Permalink Reply by ednshell on May 15, 2012 at 4:02am

Lots of threads on this this topic already on 30BaD.  Lots of people here follow vegan diets for their pets, it's a non issue, lots of long term examples and studies, for those new to the idea, please read up on it.

Here is one source: http://yourcybercourt.info/arveg/vegpets.html

Permalink Reply by Peter Csere on May 15, 2012 at 4:29am

Great one, Harley! "Interesting concept." I can see you've thought this one through... "Let the cats do their thing" and we won't need rodenticide... we also won't have any more rats or mice or songbirds in every single suburban neighborhood in the world. (I'll give him a break, that wasn't his main point. Of course feeding a cat veg kibble would ensure that it got most of its food without destroying the delicate local wildlife population.) 

I disagree that this is a non-issue. I think it's a glaring issue that we are ignoring: 

(Let me start by saying that it is very clear to me that raw vegan diets work extremely well for dogs with no need for synthesized nutrients. So I am talking exclusively about cats. Most of the veg pet sources only briefly touch upon cats, recommending a commercial kibble/canned brand) 

1) Lots of "long term examples and studies" - yes, comparing cooked veg kibble to cooked CAFO meat kibble. Cooked cafo ANYTHING is full of chemicals, usually is mostly corn anyways, and yes of course it's going to have deleterious effects compared to veg kibble. THAT is a non-issue since it's obvious. Veg kibble > commercial meat kibble. Cooked veg canned wet > Cooked commercial meat canned wet. The source you linked to is useless for me since it talks on and on about how commercial cat food with cafo and steroids and pesticides and GMO corn is bad for cats. I already know that. I stopped buying that stuff years ago. The article assumes that the only food for pets worthy of comparison and examination is cooked food in a package on a shelf labelled "pet food." 

2) Your source doesn't show me the magical research I need - the study that shows that every animal except for humans are immune to the toxins in cooked food, the poisons formed in the high-heat kibble extrusion process and the inferiority of synthetic nutrients 

So, 

3) It still doesn't solve the problem where I have to choose between poisoning one animal and killing others. It is still an issue. Calling it a non-issue would imply that the glaring faults are resolved, but if they were I wouldn't have to choose between poisoning one and killing others. The game is still rigged as long as we demonize the chemicals formed in cooked food and the synthetic nutrients when WE eat them, but completely downplay them when we feed them to the poor animals. Very anthropocentric. 

Permalink Reply by Mark on May 15, 2012 at 4:05am

Dogs are omnivores, cats are carnivores. Raw meat for sure.

Permalink Reply by adriano on May 15, 2012 at 5:16am

Peter Csere-  I saw what happened  with the  bears from the zoo from  my  grandpa´s city.  get ill because of the process food. I see what happened with the dogs of my ex, who give them  always  boiled meat.(they lost the sight and chists) and now dead.

 u can  do what you  want , but  a dingo dog I don´t  think that eats  boiled  potatoes or carrots. 

Permalink Reply by Rawbert on May 16, 2012 at 4:58am

You guys are making me sick with your kill for petfood attitude.

You're a disgrace to veganism.

You're worst than meat eater/SAD people.

 

30bad is a no kill zone.

 

If you won't feed your pet a cruelty free diet, don't keep a pet.

If you already have a pet and you're vegan, the only ethical thing you can do is to feed it a vegan diet. Period. If you won't than stop calling yourself an animal lover and a vegan.

 

It doesn't make any sense to kill hundreds and thousands of innocent animals just to keep 'your' precious pet alive a bit longer. Your pet is no more special than the 1000's of chickens, cows, pigs, etc. slaughtered to keep your emotional crutch alive.. Get a life and stop being a mass murderer that pretends is a vegan and an animal lover.

If all humans went vegan tomorrow morning, we would still need to keep the slaughterhouses open to feed the millions of pets! Now how messed up is that???

 

I'm closing this discussion now and please keep in mind to only post discussions that doesn't involve killing.

No matter if it's for human food, pet food, clothing, or whatever reason.

Take your reasons and excuses somewhere else.

 

Thank you.

Permalink Reply by PK on May 17, 2012 at 5:39am

30BaD is an Animal Sanctuary

30Bad Is A No Kill Zone!

30BaD does not tolerate promotion of the human supremacy syndrome. This means we oppose the harassment and exploitation of sentient beings for the 'potential benefits' of some humans. We find it unacceptable to suggest that humans use animals for experimentation, entertainment, consumption, clothing, economic benefit etc. Forum guidelines 

http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/please-read-our-forum

That includes what we feed our pets!

To get started with vegan and cruelty free pet feed options for both cats and dogs, please check out:

http://www.vegancats.com/

You can also find vegan pet products at amazon.com. You can experiment with your own pets and see if they will like your raw food diet too!

pradverisement: animal rights on 30bad

http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/pradvertisement-animal-ri...

Posted by our in house animal rights expert Prad.  This is an excellent resource on animal rights issues, what people are doing about it, and what you can do to get involved.

Can our doting dawgs be vegan and thriving??

http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/vegan-dogs

And how about our cuddly kittehs?? 

http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/vegan-cats

Also, this might be of interest for further information:

http://yourcybercourt.info/arveg/vegpets.html

In conclusion, perhaps the solution lies not in what to feed our pets, but in having pets at all?  

For in exploiting animals for our amusement, we are promoting the pet industry and the astrocities that occur as a result, and the cruelty based pet food industries that feed them.

Peace, PK and the 30BaD Team