MBG 3 training

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mikey on July 28, 2010 at 4:22am

Hey Ryan,
Glad to see you were able to do it with just 811 fruits and veggies.
I agree with you on the point about cooked veggies or starches I don't see much of advantage there as well, except for as you said (increase calories and easier digestion, which it seems you could do with just upping calories with fruit and it would even be easier digestion).
-I think we all agree the training is key and how you train.
-That calories is a key (this one I am working on usually get between 2500-3000 want to be 3000 plus starting to do that)
-I know we don't need that much protien, but maybe some hemp seed or nuts not going over the ratio of 80 10 10 like Jon seems to be doing might be more optimal to gain more size and tone. Right now I was seem to average more like 90/5/5.
By the way that's impressive Greg but do you think if you just up the calories with fruits you would of got the same results?

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Permalink Reply by Greg Allen on July 28, 2010 at 4:56am

Yeh, it could be a calorie thing. I didn't eat dates the first 2 years I was 811 and I was very lean which suggests perhaps insufficient calories for power work. On the other hand, I always had lots of energy and never got tired but just didn't have the extra 15% strength I have now-not that anyone really needs that high a level of power for day to day living.

I haven't eaten any cooked food for about 2 weeks right now and my strength is down a hair, but not much so maybe tweaking the calories could do the trick.

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Permalink Reply by Mikey on July 28, 2010 at 6:14am

Cool Greg,
Keep us informed on the progress. I am looking into the training as well, i don't know if though past threads members have proven pure 95/5/5 builds muscle (does anyone know if there is a thread), I see things here and there from different members. It would be nice to kind of come up with a good formula for people to use to gain a bit of muscle quiet naysayers.
We can say definitely
-Type of training
-rest and recovery important
-Enough calories
-amount of protein needed?
If there is no bodybuilder forum maybe we should make one definitely a good thing to get guys in the business's input like jon

Permalink Reply by Ryan | on July 28, 2010 at 6:40am

i was swayed by the protein propaganda for a long time, and i have really come to believe that it is a very small factor when on an 811rv diet.. granted i do typically eat a vegetable meal at night (maybe 1-2 lbs of veggies), but i don't notice a huge difference when packing them in vs. eating less of them

before i read 80/10/10 and switched i really focused on protein, and was adding hemp powder to nearly all of my food.. it was a much higher percentage of my calories than it has been for the past 2 years.. during this time i was very thin from not having the energy to do the adequate training (strength trained daily but without enough vigor) or the vitality for my body to grow

i see it as a simple cycle nowadays:

fruit carbs > energy to put in the necessary training > better rest/sleep and greater hunger for fruit > muscle growth from tissue broken down during training and rebuilt stronger thru repleted glycogen and rest/recovery > glycogen stores topped off and adequate sleep to start the fun process over again

*yes vitamins/minerals/macronutrients play a part in there, but if you're eating 811rv and following this thought process they are not really an issue or concern

Permalink Reply by jon harrington hinds on July 28, 2010 at 6:53am

hey ryan, i hear what you are saying and all i can say is how i've felt. one thing you mention is the recovery part....very true...got to really plan that and stick to it. i kept track of my calories...starting at 3,500 a day, training pretty hard and felt not so strong...so bumped em up to 4,500 a day and felt pretty much the same but not as lean....and still not close to hitting my maxes in most all of my exercises...handstand push ups, pull ups, vertical jump etc. i hear you though. all i know is with my few add ons of seeds, nuts and some grains my max strength has returned and fullness of muscles too...still pretty much the same but for a few add ons like i mentioned. very interesting topic though.

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Permalink Reply by Mikey on July 30, 2010 at 3:07am

Good stuff Jon,
Thanks for the response I am trying to gather as much info about this to kind of understand (while also trying to see if we can build and be strong on 80 10 10, it seems like quite a few members have been able to do this like Ryan). I know charlie abel also eats some nuts everyday. I am going to see if I can get some info from Chris Calafino (but I think might have to pay for his info). Check those guys out. I also know there is another personal trainer on the site who seems fit and pretty sure he does straight forward 80 10 10. I will update this thread with my experience and any info I find.
P.S being in the buisness you must know a lot of paleo crossfitters it seems to me they don't eat as many calories (am I wrong about that) and seem to be able to get big pretty fast. Question is this due to the higher protien foods or is due to eating meat that is suppose to be toxic for us so they store more water and puff up easier (the only problem with that argument is that if that were the case they should also have a higher fat % cause toxins store in fat and as long as they stay low carb some get down to 5% bodyfat). Whats your take?

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Permalink Reply by Greg Allen on July 30, 2010 at 3:22am

Lean and muscular isn't necessarily fit. During the Korean war, autopsies on lean fit looking young American soldiers already showed widespread hardening of the arteries while autopsies on N Korean soldiers showed none: they were eating plant based diets instead of meat and dairy like our guys. As I'm sure you know, looks can be deceiving when it comes to fitness and dietary problems may not become apparent for decades.

Permalink Reply by jon harrington hinds on July 30, 2010 at 2:51pm

hey mikey, i am interested for sure in seeing what some 811 guys are doing to stay at peak level of strength & power performance...seen alot of endurance guys but not any str/pwr athletes which i am and it is whom i work with. on the paleo, they get muscular cause the animal products speed the growth of the body no doubt but also shorten the life as well....short term pleasure long term pain you could say. i just feel it's not how we are meant to eat, it's not best for the planet and for sure not animals:) .... you know this:) eating animals like the paleo diet to me is ego eating, if we can do the same without killing another species and help with global cooling and get stronger and perform better than why not do it?:) i'm a very strong athlete, i'm a plant eater 100%, just want to constantly learn more and increase my energy...that is why i'm even talking about 811, doug makes alot of sense with his book. but my gut does not lie:) if it's upset, which happened alot, then that is not good...so i want to learn more, that is all:)

Permalink Reply by RawDad on October 26, 2010 at 12:34am

Just found this discussion.. and have something to share.

I have done 811rv strict for 100 days a few times. One time - I cut my finger and it was not healing - I had a cooked veg meal with some beans - the very next day - healing was almost complete.

I am recovering from fatigue - maybe come organ damage? - not sure - but did find this a most interesting experience... perhaps a bit extra protein is needed in extreme cases ?

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Permalink Reply by jon harrington hinds on July 28, 2010 at 6:48am

most all of my MBG trainers eat a plant based diet, but i am the only one that did the 811 diet....my reply to mikey above says sort of how i eat as well.
interesting topic for sure, similar feel huh:)
stay strong my friend and come on in and say hey sometime too!!
jon

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Permalink Reply by Mikey on July 28, 2010 at 8:23am

Hey Ryan so for you it was a question of bumping up the calories to gain some muscle, did you also get the tone ( I hear you both on the importance of recovery). How many calories were you taking in?.
I understand both of what you guys are talking about the protein that we don't need to much but we still need some. Possibly by bumping up your calories Ryan it gave you enough protien to help build mass where as for jon even with the bump up in calories he needed a bit more and is able to get it from the nuts and seeds (possibly if he went up a bit higher on calories this would of done the trick, jon has quite a bit of mass to support, but we got to stop eating at some point :)). Jon how long did you try at 4500 before adding some nuts and seeds?
By the way great info guys
I will definitely try bumping up the calories and getting some quality sleep (if my 5 and 2 year old let me :)) and try it without nuts and seeds just to experiment, We all know of the female bodybuilder was not gaining with 80 10 10 who DR Graham told to get more sleep and she gained 25 pounds of muscle

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Permalink Reply by Mikey on July 29, 2010 at 2:15am

Hey Guys one of the guys that maybe might help out with this discussion is Chris Califino he seems to be following the strict 80 10 10. Check out his page and his pics pretty impressive. I saw you contacted him Ryan did he give any advice?

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