http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/2011/04/80-10-10-diet-811rv.html
Another blogger who plans to change the surface of the health movement, with no significant deep going whatsoever, nevertheless I have heard some of his criticism (aging, low cholesterol, low sex drive) and for what it's worth, I think, they should be discussed.
"More importantly, this diet is totally unproven"
"But unfortunately there is hell to pay for taking such a route, and I believe from what I’ve experienced, studied, and heard from others – that 811rv has a dark side that rears its ugly head in the long-term, usually starting with small things like lack of morning wood, coldness, and disappearance of the menstrual period followed by an escalation into much more serious health problems like anemia, infertility, hair loss, severe digestive problems, frequent illness/immune disorders, autoimmune disease, and any number of other strange complications."
"Add those together and you have the word “RISKY.”"
I wonder, if the diet is unproven how come he knows exactly what's going to happen longterm?
Just another nonsensical bombardment in my arrogant opinion, what do you think?
Permalink Reply by TheBananaGirl on lack of morning wood?! Oh dear god. haha. So all the viagra out there was invented for fruit eaters?
coldness, and disappearance of the menstrual period followed by an escalation into much more serious health problems like anemia, infertility, hair loss, severe digestive problems, frequent illness/immune disorders, autoimmune disease
~ Well done Matt! You listed the symptoms of calorie restriction.
"Add those together and you have the word "RISKY" “UNDEREATING.”"
"I wonder, if the diet is unproven how come he knows exactly what's going to happen longterm?"
~ Exactly. Tarot maybe?
Matt and I have had our debates in the past, he actually wrote a blog about me & LFRV that got about 600 comments. I think he secretly wants to really succeed on this lifestyle because he talks about it all the time. He just isn't executing it properly ~ like many. It would help him get leaner, I know he has struggled with weight issues following that meaty diet that he eats and recommends.
I won't associate with him or accept his FB friend request until he removes that sawn-off tortured pigs head from his blog header. I hope its gone. ~ Ah yep just took a look, finally.
He doesn't seem like a bad guy just mega confused and obviously rowing his boat in the wrong direction.
Permalink Reply by DURIANRIDER on MS is using examples of late night, undereating, overtraining, underdrinking, under sleeping, over thinking '811ers' that are bound to fail. Its like using drink drivers to say cars are dangerous.
Then when you have people that are doing well they say 'oh but he looks old, he doesnt really ride that far, she cant run that fast, she calorie restricts etc. I will tell people something, it takes ZERO guts to be a skeptic. ANYONE can say 'oh but Im skeptical about eating a diet based on fruits and veg. Im skeptical about eating low fat, high carb DESPITE all the science, living examples, intuition, athletic performances etc.
Anyone can be a skeptic. The question MS has to answer himself is 'do I have enough guts to step up and follow those getting the results I desire? Do I have enough guts to follow my heart vs the fad diet, carb phobic guru hucksters?'
Permalink Reply by Cantaloup Vampire on He says there's not enough protein in an vegan/raw vegan diet, says in his ebook that 30g is enough, which I consider very, very low, and if you do the math for 2500kcal-3500kcal as the calories you'd need for a low active ("normal") day, you always end up with 50-70g of protein! 30g is enough but 50-70g is too low an intake?
EDIT: What I find most amusing is that, in his ebook, he recommends pretty much 811 with the exception of fats due to his lackwood-phoebia.
Cholesterol, furtheremore, is not fat-dependent but energy-dependent. Feeling cold, low cholesterol levels = low carbohydrate intake, low testosterone = low activity. Take the carbs and move your body, and all turns better.
Permalink Reply by TheBananaGirl on 
Permalink Reply by Rach on coldness
what? is that the reason i wake up drenched in sweat each night?
Permalink Reply by DURIANRIDER on 
Permalink Reply by Leonie on 
Permalink Reply by Adam on What are you eating Rach? Are you still eating cooked foods at all? High protein foods like nuts or sprouts on a daily basis?
Waking up drenched in sweat usually happens for one of 5 reasons (the first 4 usually including the 5th and the 5th usually including one of the first 4):
1) Eating too late at night just before bed
2) Eating high protein foods
3) Eating cooked junk food (not just any old cooked food) that your body has to eliminate
4) Intolerance to grains (especially gluten grains), whilst consuming them regularly
5) Very high levels of stress.
There is a possible 6th, which is related to screwed up hormones, which will take up to 7 months to recover from (due to using saturated fats as the base for hormones, rather than polyunsat's). But it is more usually the others.
Take care
Adam x
Permalink Reply by Bernardeta on Permalink Reply by Adam on Hey Keenan
Sort of and not exactly. An observation that I have had with some clients (In my paid employment, I work with cooked food clients, most of whom do not want to go vegan) is that sometimes people with screwed up hormones find they sweat profusely at night (not really a surprise, since menopausal women often find this). Although it isn't quite as simple as just the fats being responsible for hormone disruption, I read in Henry Osieckis book "the physicians handbook of clinical nutrition" that one of the reasons for disrupted hormone activity can be excess saturated fat in the diet and insufficient polyunsaturated fats, especially omega 3. He said that this is because saturated fats make hormones that are 4 times as potent as hormones made with polynsaturated fats. And that sometimes it can take up to 7 months for the endocrine system to replace all of the hormones previously made with saturated fat with polyunsaturated fats.
It isn't a certainty, which is why I said its a possibility, and didn't include it with the main ones, but it certainly seems plausible.
My copy is at work, I will be back in on Tuesday, so I will look to see if he provides a reference there.
Take care
Adam x
Permalink Reply by DURIANRIDER on As for b12 MS needs to read this book and get up to speed.
http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467
Permalink Reply by B on This is more of the same paranoia about low-fat diets we hear about from the fringes of the alternative health movement. We are told, contrary to both sound science and conventional wisdom, that if we eat too little fat and as a result have a total serum cholesterol below 200mg/dl, we will likely suffer health consequences associated with low cholesterol levels, including depression, suicidal ideation, stroke, and even cancer. Those who eat vegan/plant-based diets are therefore at higher risk for all these conditions because they tend to eat less fat and have lower cholesterol than omnivores.
Well then these health experts should tell the Kenyan Maasai who feast on meat and milk and blood and have an avg serum cholesterol of 125-150mg/dl that they're cholesterol is too low and they need to eat more fat! it's not because they have copious amounts of LDL receptors by virtue of genetics, or that they're highly physically active and live a very lifestyle from those of us in the developed world, nope nope nope, too little fat in their diet.
and they should tell native inuit, who have higher a incidence of hemorragic stroke (and atherosclerosis, yay n-3 oils) than SADers this must be because there's too little fat in their diet! and they should stay the $&%^ away from those nasty artery clogging fruits and veggies! and clearly the reason they may have equivalent risk for cancer as the Danish (who last I checked had the highest cancer rate in the world) is because they are deficient in cholesterol!!
There's research that suggests there are indeed health problems associated with producing too little cholesterol but this can have many causes unrelated to diet and certainly the populations on which these studies are based are not on the McDougall or Ornish programs.
We have the research that shows a 10% fat diets can reverse heart disease, diabetes, reproductive cancers, kidney disease, slow the aging process, help us live longer, improve athletic performance. Plant-based diets are going mainstream because of this, it's the high fat/high protein/high animal product camp that will always be on the fringe because they are totally unproven to have lasting health benefits without significant disease risks. 811 is based largely on this science which is the result of decades of work by real researchers and physicians, not quacks. someday we may have studies on long term lfrvs, but until then I'll take my chances on plenty of fruit not so much fat thanks.
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