Liver and fruit

Hi, I would like to ask you about possible dangers of being on 811 and thus eating lots of fruit for liver. My liver is quiet weak due to medications I had used in the past. And I was warned by my doctor that high fruit consumption can worsen it. I tried to look for some answers on internet and I have found out, that fruit can cause fatty liver because all fructose must be metabolised in the liver - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose

"The medical profession thinks fructose is better for diabetics than sugar," says Meira Field, Ph.D., a research chemist at United States Department of Agriculture, "but every cell in the body can
metabolize glucose. However, all fructose must be metabolized in the
liver. The livers of the rats on the high fructose diet looked like the
livers of alcoholics, plugged with fat and cirrhotic."^[56]
While a few other tissues (e.g., sperm cells^[57]
and some intestinal cells) do use fructose directly, fructose is almost
entirely metabolized in the liver.^[56]

"When fructose reaches the liver," says Dr. William J. Whelan, a biochemist at the University of Miami School of Medicine, "the liver goes bananas and stops everything else to metabolize the fructose."
Eating fructose instead of glucose results in lower circulating insulin
and leptin
levels, and higher of ghrelin levels after the meal.^[58]
Since leptin and insulin decrease appetite and ghrelin increases
appetite, some researchers suspect that eating large amounts of fructose
increases the likelihood of weight gain.^[59]

Excessive fructose consumption is also believed to contribute to the development of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.^[60]

Can I continue on 811 diet?

Thanks a lot for help. B

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Permalink Reply by Chad on August 19, 2010 at 9:41pm

Consuming a lot of fructose without it's natural fiber, like that found in processed foods and cola in the form of HFCS is harmful, not whole pieces of fruit.

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Permalink Reply by DURIANRIDER on August 19, 2010 at 9:59pm

Would love if anyone could find me a medical journal with fruit fructose being used as the fructose in question.

Ive searched high n low and aint found nothing. Telling a human not to eat fruit is like telling a tiger not to eat meat.

If I were in your shoes Bernadeta, Id put everything else in life on hold and just focus on early nights, fruity days, hydration, rest and mild activity.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick H. on August 21, 2010 at 12:02am

G'day Bernardeta :)

I have had liver issues and elevated LFT's due to unhygienic habits over a decade ago.

Eating (mostly) 811rv and incorporating the principles of Natural Hygiene have helped fabulously in creating a more comfortable lifestyle for myself. I used to wake with sweats, be fatigued for long periods, etc. and now each day is just better and better.

Initially I did feel my liver working hard when I first ate large fruit meals, but the same was true for non fruit meals. I observed that it seemed to be the volume of food rather than the fruit that irritated it. Now I can eat the same large amount - up to a litre and a half or more of nana smoothie - and be fine.

After 8 months of doing this close to 100% (for various reasons a few times a week I eat a meal that includes some cooked; the longest I've been totally 811rv is 6 weeks) I am feeling better and better with each day. Some symptoms are still there and I am very confident that they will go simply by continuing with 811rv lifestyle, though I am planning on fasting to really allow my body some dedicated time to heal.

So to cut a long story short, it has been my experience that eating a lot of fruit is fine for the liver. Obviously if there are some issues then the cause needs to be removed and perhaps some modifications made to begin with. But I am very happy with the way my health is progressing.

Plenty of water is great and so is lots of sleep. While sleeping and resting the body can devote more energy to healing. With causes of dis-ease removed your body will heal. There was an adjustment period for me yet I have read of plenty of others who have also had time adjusting, whether or not they have had medical issues.

Keep the cals up, be hydrated, exercise when you can, get plenty of rest and enjoy life. :) Health is spontaneous and is our natural state of being.

I have also found reading about natural hygiene to be of benefit in clarifying how the body heals and the cause of dis-comfort and dis-ease. Lately I have been reading articles form here: http://www.vidaclara.com/Documents.html
and here: http://arcadiahealthcentre.com.au/main/page_articles_action_presupp...

Liver specialists have only ever wanted to slice and dice my body and/or fill it with drugs. It is astounding how little comprehension the medical mafia has as to how the body heals. Well, it appears they have no idea that it even does heal, they seem to think that external substances are capable of healing the body and simply don't trust it to do what it does best.

If you would ever like to ask me any questions about my experience, please feel free to do so.
:)

Oh yeah, making sure that the fruit you eat is ripe makes a huge difference to the liver's comfort. Mono mealing too is great.

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Permalink Reply by Ste on August 21, 2010 at 12:31am

Its always tricky addressing this kind of problem because medications and treatments can disrupt the body in so many different unnatural ways.

The rat study seems absurd. Its like feeding your dog or cat banana's and then wondering why their health is declining.

I seriously doubt that breaking fructose into glucose can place any kind of stress your liver. That right there is a design from nature, it isn't the equivalent of getting rid of toxic waste like alcohol. Also bare in mind that your liver [probably] will become stronger again if its not being exposed to toxic substances, and fructose isn't a toxic substance. The question is what will you replace fructose with? Like DR said, telling a human not to eat fruit makes little sense. I imagine everything else would place far greater stress that fruit - but bare in mind this is my own logical speculation

Unfortunately only a physician can give qualified advice, but since barely any are worth listening to for nutrition information your going to have to be your own doctor. The best thing to do is make a point of studying as much information as you can get your hands on and then make an informed decision.
Good luck

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Permalink Reply by DURIANRIDER on August 21, 2010 at 5:40pm

A good read is 'Seeds of deception' by Jeremy Smith. It talks about the dangers of GMO HFCS. Its the same stuff they use for all the fructose studies.

Putthing fruit in the same bathtub as GMO HFCS is like me wrapping a bicycle in razor wire and selling it to a scientist and the scientist publishing a study that General Motors can conclude 'cycling is very dangerous for health, please drive a car to the shop instead..'.

Dont eat fruit, buy our supplements and eat all the bacon and eggs you care for...aka Dr Mercola, Dr Atkins, Dr Robertson etc.

And Bernadeta, do you have any blood tests, diagnosis etc? What condition are we talking here and what markers were used in the diagnosis? How many doctors diagnosed you?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Vass on October 29, 2011 at 11:41pm

haha this is a wicked post :)

It confuses me a lot when people try to claim that eating fruit causes fatty liver disease. Come on... do THEY even believe what they are saying? lol

Find me ONE 30bad member who got fatty liver disease while on this diet o.O

It actually strikes me as being even more absurd than the "fruit makes you fat" thing, to which I always say "ok then, that's fine... find me one single fat 30bad member." xD

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Permalink Reply by Ben on October 30, 2011 at 1:44am

I'll also add that, other than the fiber, it is the other nutrients and phytochemicals in fruit that allow the body to easily metabolize that fructose in a very healthy way. These compounds actually help the body HEAL the liver even though fructose by itself can harm it. It's the same issue with diabetes. Yes, sugar can cause glycation of body tissues leading to diabetic complications, but it also has lots of nutrients that improve blood sugar response and reverse glycation altogether! You HAVE to look at the whole package, that's where nutrtion science gets it wrong sometimes

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Permalink Reply by Mike Vass on October 30, 2011 at 5:41am

yeah totally :)

I don't understand how anyone can say "fruit gives you fatty liver disease" with a straight face lol ^^

Additionally I apologize for the slight thread necromancy here (raising a thread from the dead!)

It's just something that came up heavily with another vegan guy who follows the mcdougall diet, and believes fruit to be something to be avoided. So other than both believing in high carb, low fat approaches, we totally disagreed on the correct foods to do this with!

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Beth on October 30, 2011 at 6:54am

Show me one long term lfrv with elevated liver enzymes.

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Permalink Reply by Jack on October 30, 2011 at 7:35am

He didn't stick around long enough to become a long-termer...

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Permalink Reply by Jack on October 30, 2011 at 8:03am

No, I'm not speaking of any real individual. I'm just pointing out a logical fallacy, an argument that in my humblest of opinions is weak and should thus not be used to promote the lifestyle. I want strong arguments for the causes I support, so whenever I see a weak one, I try to improve it and point out its weaknesses. It's one of the ways in which I support the causes I believe in.

The following is purely an attempt to explain a logical fallacy in order to improve the arguments for 80/10/10, purely a discussion on argumentation techniques and contains no opinions of any kind on the 80/10/10 diet itself (which I love).

The logical fallacy of the "show me the long-term lfrv who..." is in that if there was someone who for whatever reason could not make the lifestyle work for him/herself, however perfectly implemented, s/he would not stick around long enough to become a long-termer. Thus all long-termers are by definition successful, and don't have whatever it is you're refuting - dental health, fitness, bodyfat, liver enzymes, whatever.

It's like running IQ tests on CERN staff to find out if they are intelligent. They are, because those who weren't intelligent enough didn't make it to CERN.

Plain and simple.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Vass on October 30, 2011 at 9:33am

Kind of... but I wouldn't say it's completely true o.O

If fructose harmed the liver in any way then a very large number of people would have liver issues on high fruit diets (even when their fat intake, etc, is low), because we all have pretty much the same liver biology. The fact that SO many people on 30bad have no liver issues (and certainly aren't all walking around with fatty liver AFAIK) disproves it for me...

Well, that and the fact that it just SOUNDS preposterous before you've even done any research into it doesn't it really? xD Anyone with half a brain cell can see it makes very little sense!