New HCCV forum (here)

Howdy all :)

After much discussion in the PK's and seeing a number of posts/blogs talking about cooked vegan food we have decided to create a forum for these discussions rather than totally disallow them (or have them scattered throughout the main raw food forum).

This may prove to be a good move especially as we have seen undercarbed folks leave the 30BaD forum after not implementing the lifestyle recommendations and then go back to eating animals. We of course don't want this to happen for their health or the animals and having a high carb cooked vegan forum may also assist in minimising this.

Of course we don't want the forum to turn into a cooked food forum so please post all discussions/mentions of high carb cooked vegan food into this forum. This way we can continue on keeping the main forum on track and raw! We will trial this to see how it goes, we have already moved a number of discussions here :)

Here are some guidelines that we support, put together by the super helpful PK

Cooking is for emergencies only such as financial reasons and or there is no ripe fruit available, then low fat cooked starches may be an acceptable back up plan.
Always choose foods that are vegan and promote compassion towards our fellow earthlings.
Avoid dairy products for compassionate and health reasons: http://www.notmilk.com/
Cooking denatures food and kills the enzymes needed in digestion. Try to plan for at least 75% of the diet to be raw fruits and leafy greens.
Cooked foods should still be low fat for weight control and cardiovascular health and optimum energy.
Continue to focus on high carb high calorie sources and the more nutrient dense, the better.
Fruits do not mix well with cooked foods and or grains. An idea is to eat fruit meals during the day, and perhaps end the day with a big salad and bowl of steamed rice.
Cooking should be simple, with as little processing and as few ingredients as possible, and foods should resemble their original states such as steamed broccoli verses cookies.
This is not a license to kill foods with salt and spices or to eat McDeaths french fries. A bowl of steamed rice is fine, hold the oil, salt, and spices.
Continue to follow other guidelines such as avoiding booze, tea, coffee, soda, drugs, etc. Read more here: http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/science.html
Cooking is for emergencies only, and not for a transition tool. We still recommend going 100% low fat raw fruit and leafy green for optimum digestion and health results. As we have said before, one cannot ride two horses (or bikes;D) with the same bum. For best results and to get over addictions, just do it 100% if and when possible.
Whenever possible, choose ripe fruits and leafy greens. Primates and humans cannot manufacture vitamin C, and must consume it in fruit and greens, or they may develop sub-clinical symptoms of scurvy which could include things like skin ulcerations and mouth infections. Grains and some beans do not have vitamin C, and some beans and potatoes that do have minimal amounts, may have the vitamin C rendered useless via cooking.
Continue to consider that some of the cheaper so called starch foods have little or no vitamin C, and are usually high in protein. These foods may cause an acid condition in the body that can contribute long term to arthritis, osteoporosis, tooth decay, kidney problems and kidney stones and cancer. Grains can also cause indigestion, Crohn's disease, irritable bowel syndrome, celiac disease, colitis, constipation, diarrhea, bloating, gas, and indigestion.
Again, it is recommended that as soon as circumstances allow, that one should resume eating a low fat raw fruit and tender leafy green based diet. For some folks, that may be as easy as downgrading the house and car payment.
To save a little money now and go the starch route, only to get sick and have to pay for doctors and medications later on is a decision one will have to ask themselves if it is worth the risk involved.

BTW, I have known millionaires and people making over 100K a year who cannot afford fruit because they are maxed out financially on the McMansions they have bought and the beamers and benzes they drive.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by kindvibe on May 30, 2012 at 12:49pm

Is it in development?

Permalink Reply by sannabanna on May 30, 2012 at 12:54pm

this discussion is in the forum already :)

Permalink Reply by TheBananaGirl on May 30, 2012 at 1:32pm

Yes we just moved a number of discussions here. Go to Forum then scroll to the "High Carb Cooked Vegan" category

Permalink Reply by Connor Cordell on May 30, 2012 at 1:41pm

Awesome :) Really appreciate this guys, truly. It should really help serve as an extra transition step helper for a lot of people.

Permalink Reply by apple@li on May 31, 2012 at 10:45am

Freelee!!! <3 Thank you, thank you sooooo much!!! You guys are sooooo great!!!! I really feel sooo much better being on here now :) I know 100% raw is Number One for sure, but with all my imperfections, I feel comfy on 30BaD again! I was feeling like I shouldn't be here anymore cause I failed...but again, thank you for being so understanding with us weaklings ;) You truly are an awesome, caring, giving, compassionate couple!!!!! <3

Permalink Reply by PK on June 2, 2012 at 7:43am

Freelee,

I would like to add that for those seeking optimum health, low fat raw fruit and leafy greens are the way to go.

Cooked should only be done on an emergency basis such as lack of money and or ripe fruit.

Cooked foods should be simply cooked and as close to their natural form as possible such as steamed veggies. This is not a licence to binge on a bag of Ruffles Potato chips:D)))) (Or McDeath's Fries)

Cooked foods should still be fat free.

Foods should be cooked without the usage of salt and or toxic spices and additives. This web site can still be of assistance in deciding how and what should be used:

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/science.html

Meals should still be simple such as a big bowl of leafy greens and steamed rice (hold the oil and salt.)

Meals should still consist of mostly raw foods, with at least 75% being a target.

****

Prolonged transitions should still be avoided because people will still be fighting the same addictions over and over. One is not going to get over a coffee addiction until they just do it.

Everyone should keep in mind that fruit does not mix well with cooked foods, grains, potatoes, and beans.

Primates and humans cannot manufacture their own vitamin C and must consume this life giving vitamin. For optimum health and to avoid sub clinical scurvy symptoms, we need to eat fruits high in VC. Grains have no vitamin C, and some lentils only have minimal amounts.

So again, long story short should be that cooked foods are a back up method only, and should not become the focus of ones diet for optimum health.

Peace, PK

Permalink Reply by Windlord on June 2, 2012 at 3:19pm

+1 for the Ginger Kitteh

Permalink Reply by Jon Fergus on June 2, 2012 at 3:30pm

Beautifully put, as always PK. :)

Permalink Reply by TheBananaGirl on June 2, 2012 at 7:41pm

Yes thanks for this PK! I rather rushed this discussion and you are right about adding extra guidelines thanks! Adding to discussion header now

Permalink Reply by Vegarian on June 3, 2012 at 4:44pm

Cooking denatures food and kills the enzymes needed in digestion. Try to plan for at least 75% of the diet to be raw fruits and leafy greens.

May I ask if there is ANY science behind the 75% figure? Or is this just an "it sounds good" number? For example, does 66% sound good or 85% sound good? This is a serious question if there is something significant about 75% raw?

Permalink Reply by PK on June 4, 2012 at 9:50am

@Vegarian,

Here is a passage from the book Health Unlimited by chiropractic doctor Alan M. Immerman:

This discusses some of the issues with processing and cooking food, and Immerman suggests the 75% raw rule. I have to look it up, but I recently read another researcher saying a similar story. If 25% of the diet is processed, that denatures the food either leaving a toxic load for the body to detox, and or leaves the food, meaning enzymes, vitamins, and some minerals inert and useless to the body. The body can stay health and detoxed at about 75% raw. However, of course for optimum health and thrival, we promote doing a 100% raw low fat fruit and leafy green based diet.

FOOD PROCESSING
The subject of food processing includes all forms of cooking
and refining of food. When a food is harvested from the earth, it
is totally unprocessed. Before most foods are eaten by human
beings, some type of processing usually occurs. It is important to
discuss the impact of processing on the nutritional value of food
since such processing will usually reduce the health value of
food.
The only creatures on earth that process food are human
beings. No one has ever come upon an animal in the wild
cooking food over a fire. Every form of life on earth besides
human beings exists exclusively on raw foods. For many years,
certain health teachers have advocated unprocessed, raw food.
What are the scientific facts? Is there danger to health resulting
from the processing of food?
The answer is yes. There is a significant loss of nutrients
when food is processed.
Thousands of experiments have proven that food
processing will usually reduce the nutritional value of food. We
will discuss some of these studies. But, first, it is important to
understand the limitations of modern scientific research.
Remember that while it may be possible for a scientist to take a
forest apart, it is not possible for a scientist to create a forest.
Science has documented the loss of many nutrients when food
is processed, but there are probably many undiscovered factors
in food which are needed for good health. What is the impact of
processing on these unknown factors? If such factors are
destroyed, how can we replace them with food supplements?
Obviously, we cannot replace what we have not identified.
Therefore, even if we replace all the nutrients known to be
destroyed by food processing, some of the health-supporting
value of food may still be absent.
The only safe course is to eat most foods in the
unprocessed form, just as they were created by nature. In 50
years, when scientists discover other necessary nutrients which
had been destroyed by food processing, those who have eaten
foods in the natural state will have no regrets. They will have
remained well-nourished by depending on nature, not on
modern science.
Generally speaking, when food is processed, there is a
15% loss of minerals, carbohydrates, fats, protein, vitamins K
and B3 (niacin). The following nutrients suffer greater losses:
vitamins A, D, E, B6, B12, B2 (riboflavin); pantothenic acid and
folacin. There is a serious amount of loss of vitamins B1
(thiamine) and C from food processing.
When unrefined wheat is processed into white flour, there is
an approximate loss of 70-80% of over 40 nutrients. When flour
is enriched, only 3-4 nutrients are added. Therefore, refined
grains have the distinction of being the most depleted of all
foods by methods of processing.
Vitamins C and B1 are easily destroyed by heat. Generally,
the more water used in cooking, the greater the loss of vitamin.
Boiling can cause up to 65% loss of vitamin C, whereas
waterless cooking causes only a 30% loss. An average loss of
50% is found with vitamin B1 after cooking.
Vitamins A, D, E, B6, B12, riboflavin (B2), pantothenic acid,
and folacin are more stable than vitamins C and B1. Therefore,
an average loss of 20% can be expected from cooking.
When foods are cooked in water, minerals can be leached
into the water from the food. If the water is not used, the
minerals can be lost. Unfortunately, there are no exact data as
to the amount of minerals lost.
Cooking is also known to change the availability of minerals
to the body. A mineral that becomes less available may be less
easily absorbed and/or utilized by the body. Again, there are
very few studies which clearly state the percent loss.
Protein can be damaged by heat. Amino acids are the
subunits of protein and studies have found that cooking can
destroy 5-17% of some of the most important amino acids.
Studies on the effects of food processing clearly show
many losses of nutrients. But much is unknown. Scientists know
that processing-related changes in the three-dimensional form of
food, and in the chemical nature of food can reduce the amount
of nutrients available to the body. Also, studies have shown that
processing will reduce the amounts of some important nutrients.
But the details are largely unknown. Since far more is unknown

than known about the effects of food processing, it is risky to
depend upon processed foods for good nutrition. Be safe rather
than sorry: eat most of your food in the raw, unrefined state.
Studying living beings is another approach to evaluating the
effect of food processing on health. In clinical practice, a doctor
can feed patients raw food exclusively and evaluate the result. In
the United States, there is a 150 year old tradition of prescribing
raw food diets to sick people. Hundreds of doctors have been
involved. The cumulative opinion is that raw foods are
considerably more effective in building and maintaining good
health than are cooked foods.
A landmark study was done by Dr. Francis Pottenger in the
late 1940s, and the findings were published in a major scientific
journal. Dr. Pottenger experimented with diet changes using
hundreds of cats. Some cats were fed raw meat and raw milk,
while others were fed the same meat and milk in the cooked
form. The differences between the groups of cats were dramatic.
In the cooked food group, miscarriages were common,
internal organ and bone structure were abnormal, reproduction
failed after a few generations, and behavior was irritable. In the
raw food group, miscarriages were rare, organ and bone
structure was totally normal, reproduction was healthy and
normal, and behavior was calm. This study was so carefully
designed that we can be sure that the only cause of illness in the
cooked food animals was the destruction of health-giving
properties in the food from cooking.
Scientific studies and clinical experience strongly indicate
that food processing makes food less healthful. Choosing the
proper type of food is important, but it is equally important to
assure that the nutritional value is not destroyed by processing.
The safest path to follow is to eat 75% of your food in the raw,
unprocessed form. And if you are ill and attempting to rebuild
health, eat 100% of your food raw for at least one month.
In some cases, supervision by a doctor will be necessary
when the change is made from a cooked food diet to one high in
raw food. Occasionally, raw food will be irritating to the digestive
tract. With a history of a stomach ulcer or ulcerative colitis, raw
food can be quite aggravating. If you experience any disturbing
symptoms at any time, see your doctor.