Maybe this posting will get deleted, but it's a risk I'm taking, to let some of my 30BaD friends know what's going on with me:
I had a really serious health scare recently, that started in my omnivorous days and seemed to have been in remission, but somehow it came back (or never really healed in the first place).
My heart is not functioning properly and my BP is really high.
It's NOT the 80/10/10 diet that caused this, it's my own doing, I feel I might have consumed too much fat and too little calories. So, I'm NOT blaming 811, lest that be very clear.
But, I've been having contact with Dr McDougall and have decided to go on his program for now, to tackle this, as it's quite serious. I need to get my BP and weight down fast. It's either McDougall or heart and BP medication. On his program, it's easier for me, in the winter time in The Netherlands to get my cals in.
I was already vegan, and a runner, and will continue doing this, I will just be following his regime closely.
I hope I will still be welcome on this site, but, if I'm not I will understand... I mean no offense or disrespect to this site, it's founders or teachings, I just want to be honest about where I am. I do believe low fat/ high carb vegan is the way, there is no way for me to be on anything else than that. I am kind of fearing your reactions, but, so be it. I subscribe to DR's sense of transparency, so here I am. I WILL beat this, and it will be due to the high carb/ low fat/ vegan lifestyle.
I think you're making a great decision and I think you're brave for sharing here. I hope McDougall's works for you.
Thank you Mera! I hope so too... <3
How scary! I wish you the best as you recover.
Thank you so much!
Hey Usha, no worries, if you are unable to get in enough calories from fruit for whatever reason then low-fat high carb cooked is second best. A good thread on someone else doing that: Amazing results after following durianriders tips
Here is the 30BAD pro-cooked food talk policy, it's a very good read and might clear things up for people who are wondering exactly what it is:
Please read our policy on the promotion of cooked food on 30BaD
Thank you! I don't intend to promote anything, I just need to do what I need to do to stay off the heart-medication, and lower BP STAT. My problems did NOT occur from 811, it's strictly a calorie issue. And fat, which is easier to manage for me when I add in cooked grains that fill me up.
Being of Asiatic heritage, this feels very close to how "my" people eat, rice, potatoes stuff like that.
It seemed to be healing well on 811 (even high raw with days in a row of being 100%) but well, I guess it still persisted.
McDougall isn't against fruits he just has a thing against blending, in terms of weight loss, his program is directed of eating the foods as a whole, whether cooked, steamed, (oven or stove) baked (without oils, butter or salt) or stir fried.
He is big on letting the body do it's own digesting and breaking down, as opposed to having a machine do it, in the manner a high powered blender does. To me, it's just an opinion, as long as I'm getting better, I'll try anything EXCEPT eating fat and animal/secretions!!!!!
Most of the veggies and all fruits are consumed raw, it's just adding extra starch like rice, cous cous, sweet potatoes, legumes, whole grain tortillas and stuff like that. For now, that works well for ME, and that's what I need to focus on.
I know 811 is a superior lifestyle but there are certain things about it that are very difficult for me to uphold at this time in my life. I am under high levels of stress and would need so much calories from fruits that it's just too much, coming from a history of systematic undereating.
I want to stretch that that is purely ME, not the lifestyle. Just right now I have to do what's needed within the frameworks that I am currently able to.
Thank you it would be so wonderful to be able to share some of my process here, even though I am not on 811, but McDougall. And not be excommunicated... <3 <3 <3
Just felt it needed to state this openly that my current goal is not to be 100% lfrv, but 100% healthy, using as much of the pillars on low fat vegan nutrition and choosing the best of both the worlds of raw and cooked carbs...
Usha, first of all, have you had a cardiologist check your heart?
You might have a genetic defect from birth that has nothing to do with diet. Sometimes they do not show up until later in life.
I have a friend who is in her forties, and a mother of three kids, who started having vertigo and nausea symptoms, only to find out she has been living with a heart defect, she has a hole in one of her heart structures.
Heart murmurs run in my family too, and my heart is not the strongest. But doing a pure overt fat free diet with plenty of calories makes me feel best and keeps my blood pressure low.
Eating a minimum of 2500-3000 calories a day of overt fat free fruits n leafy greens, and high potassium fruits like bananas does wonders for me.
I just want to caution you that after eating a 811 raw vegan diet, that some of our members who tried McDougall diet only to have bad results with digestion. The McDougall diet might be good for someone coming from sad, but those who have detoxed their bodies with raw, it can have bad results.
Be careful as to being sold a bunch of supplements too. One of our members was sold a bunch of snake oil if you know what I mean.
If you think you need more one on one coaching, and your heart and mind is telling you that 811 is right, why don't you consult with DR or Freelee?
If not, then good luck with your health and your journey, Peace, PK
I agree with PK Usha - you and I are of the same ethnic background and I do far better on 811rv. I have a congenital heart deformity , and it's been a thousand times better on high fruit than high starch. I fully support your decision of course, but please do check things out with your cardiologist!!! xox
Thanks PK. I am falling into one medical disaster after another. Doctors are just so clueless. They know how to patch together a broken arm, but with more mystery to the complaints (why would a young woman have heart-issues) they are at a loss. I don't have any faith in the medical world, especially here in Netherlands... I did get checked, all of this came out during my regular check up. I haven't been 100% on 811 PK, I was 100% on superfood raw, and then transitioned to 811 and complemented with grains for extra calories. I was struggling getting in the cals, as I stated.
I am actually eating much lower fat now than I was. Sort of funny to realize how much fat keeps creeping into a 'pure' diet after all...
I don't go for any supplements, the only thing the PCRM crew advise is taking a multi vitamine (plant-based, obviously). But, it's just an advice, not a prescription. I could do well with extra folic acid and a B complex, but haven't decided yet on the sublinguals.
Right now I'm doing well, have contact with John McDougall and Jeff Novick. I am afraid that I would disappoint Harley and Freelee if I became their pupil, as I severely struggle with getting in enough calories on fruit. With the stress I am under (and yes, I am addressing it) I would need so much extra cals that, coming from a history of weight gain due to extreme fad dieting and cal restricting, (yoyo'ing) I would not know how I can manage that. With the grains, it's easy, cheap, readily available and the recipes are easy to follow (John's wife Mary made them). They still have a lot of fruits and veggies just that the grains form the staples at every meal, and the rest is complementary.
Peace to you PK!! <3
I do commend you for your commitment to veganism.
I understand that you may not want to keep following conventional doctors.
When I recommended you go to a cardiologist, it was not to get you on medication, and no one can force you to do so. It is so you can have some kind of sonogram or electrocardiogram done to check out the structures of your heart. For example, if you have any extreme heart murmur, leaky valves, etc, there are some lifestyle changes you can make such as cutting out the jogging to keep yourself comfortable.
I was born with a genetic neuropathy. I personally know that I cannot do extreme exercises like jogging without further injuring myself. I can do walking and light dancing like belly dancing.
Whatever you chose, I recommend doing that 100% for a while. You seem to be educating yourself on different methods and ways of life, and then mixing things up. You want to do 811, but are then doing superfood raw and or adding in too much fat. Then you have the PCRM recomendation for supplements, and now the McDougal plan. If you keep jumping around, you are only doing a mix, and not a way of life at all. You are not going to see results good or bad in the short term. It can take months, sometimes years to get positive results.
In regards to McDougal, while many people do get short term good results, you should continue to consider long term results as well. On a high grain based diet, you will be creating an acid condition in the body. This is usually buffered by pulling calcium from the bones. Long term results may be arthritis, osteoporosis, teeth problems, kidney stones, and atheriosclerosis and heart disease which is caused by the calcium deposits hardening the arteries, and causing blockages in the heart.
If the average SAD eater has a 40% chance of having heart disease during their lifetime, a grain based vegan has a 30% chance. For all of the trouble, that is only a 10% reduction if the person is lucky.
I beg you to reconsider a overt fat free raw vegan diet for one more reason. I saw one of your pics I think, where you mentioned hypothyriodism. This might also be the cause of your heart discomfort and or high bp. The good news might be that your thyroid is still producing some hormone.
Now how will an overt fat free diet help? I have said it many times, but fats in the diet, even from vegan sources like nuts and avocados, can gunk up and slow down the blood flow. In return, the body has to increase blood pressure to ensure that cells are getting proper nutrients. The cells also get gunked up and cannot absorb oxygen, vitamins, minerals, calories, and carbohydrates, as well as hormones like thyroid hormone. So even though your thyroid might still be working, it is pointless on a high fat diet.
Point two, a diet high in vitamins and minerals such as a raw fruit and leafy green diet will help you rebuild your thyroid tissues, that is if you are eating a fat free diet, and they can absorb the nutrients.
A diet high in potassium, such as eating a low fat diet high in bananas will also help keep blood pressure low, and regulate tissues and or heart conditions.
More thoughts on grains. They just do not have the high vitamin and mineral content that fruits and leafy greens do. You might feel ok on grains, but will you feel optimum. You will also risk digestive disorders like Crohn's, Celiac, irritable bowel syndrome, and leaky gut syndrome.
You might want to read the book Grain Damage by Dr. Graham as well.
I ask you one more time, beg you, plead with you. Give yourself another 30 day 811 challenge. And this is not for weight loss and vanity reasons. This is to help you feel better, and to ensure future good health as well.
Give the 811 diet one more chance, but this time go overt fat free. You can also do a banana and or fruit of your choice island for a few days or weeks. As your digestion improves, you will naturally start to crave more calories.
Then once you reach a reasonable calorie goal, lets start with 2500 a day, you can add in other raw whole fruits and leafy greens like romaine lettuce and baby spinach. Avoid those cruciferous veggies like broccoli that can cause their own digestive upsets.
One more thing. I understand that you may feel that the grain based diet is cheaper short term, and maybe it is. But I always advise people to arrange their life around their proper food and health. I have known millionaires who go and buy the million dollar house, and the hundred thousand dollar SUV, but they cannot afford fruit.
Without health, we have no wealth. For if you do not take care of health in the first place, then you will still pay the price in the long run. First in not being able to fulfill your truth and your purpose because of illness. Then the cost of doctors, medications, lotions, soaps, and cosmetics, and other products.
Just some food for your thoughts. Peace, PK
Usha, please read this!
Watch out for hidden salt in McDougall's program. He sometimes forgets (at least in his recipes) that soy sauces is full of sodium and Bragg's liquid Aminos has even MORE sodium than soy sauce!
That being said, I don't like the paradigm that sodium is the only main cause of high blood pressure. When the body and kidneys are functioning properly, it should be able to handle large fluctuations of salt fairly well without causing blood pressure to go up. Of course, I am not a fan of using salt, but I think it is futile to worry about getting your sodium level to 0mg a day to get your blood pressure lower. In this instance, its likely to be more than just salt.
Your body raises its blood pressure ON PURPOSE for a couple different reasons. One is stagnant lymphatic congestion. This is when your lymph system (the plumbing that absorbs fats, hauls waste products to be disposed of, and transports immune system components) is not flowing properly. This can be caused by too much fat in the diet, an over-active immune system, or not enough daily activity to get the lymph flowing. When lymph system can't push it's contents along properly, what does it do? It uses its back-up system which is to increase blood pressure. This indirectly causes an increase in lymphatic pressure improving its flow.
Another reason the body will increase its blood pressure is when various tissues around the body aren't receiving enough nutrition. Think about it, if your circulatory system is having trouble getting oxygen and nutrients through the miles and miles of tiny capillaries you have all over your body, it makes sense that an increase in pressure would help fix this problem. It's like if the top floor of a building isn't get proper water pressure in their shower-heads. So they turn up the water pressure to get the water where it needs to go. Essentially the cause of the problem in this case is inflammation and lack of exercise as well.
I have much more information on this if you want to PM with more questions. Best of luck!
A high fat diet will slow down blood flow. As the body's tissues are started of oxygen and or nutrients, the body will release hormones to increase blood flow and or blood pressure.