Hello all,
I have a question for you all and I am looking forward to input because I know there are so many people around here at 30bad that are so well educated and experienced in health, natural hygene, raw veganism, etc.
So here it goes...
Is it normal, good, and even natural to eat so much and keep on eating until you're about to burst, just to prevent a cooked food binge? I know myself... coming from a background of anorexia and bulimia, that on this lifestyle, if I do not completely stuff myself until I feel like I am going to be sick, the temptations to eat cooked vegan foods are still out there (not talking about rice or sweet potatoes, talking about soy ice cream and other junk...) I know a lot of people here do not believe there is such a thing as over-eating on fruits, but I have noticed that some people do seem to think this is possible, like Chris Califano, whose views and input around the forums I always find real interesting, being one of them (unless I understood you wrong, Chris).
Durianrider, you often say that emotional eating doesn't exist, and that wanting to binge out on cooked foods just means you didn't get enough carbs... but is it good for someone to eat so much that they feel literally sick in their stomach from eating too much, just to prevent a cooked food binge?
I have been getting better and better on this lifestyle, but over the past year and a half, I have had plenty a set-back, I will do great, make sure I am always surrounded by a SEA of fresh raw fruits and lotttttts of medjool dates, I get my greens in, I exercise, drink filtered water like there is no tomorrow, I sleep as long as I can and without alarmclock (unless I have an early appointment that i can't miss), and go for as much outside time as I can. And still I get times where I just want to buy every single vegan cookie, ice cream and chips item in the store and eat it all alone in my home, DESPITE knowing how awful I will feel physically and mentally the next day(s). It is not like I am eating only 2000 calories and then wonder, gee, why did I just binge on potato chips?
It seems Durianrider and I will never see eye to eye on this, that anorexia and bulimia are psychological disorders and not just a cause of low carb intake, but that is fine, that is not really what this is about anyway.
I would just like to know if it is a good idea to really stuff yourself in order to prevent cooked food binges?
Before you assume that I have an anorexic stomach... this is not the case, I have thankfully been recovered from anorexia for years, from bulimia too, but I still have binge attacks, just not followed by purging any more :) thankfully. I can eat hormonal always eating teen boys under the table, I work in an all men environment and I can eat ALL of them under the table :P (even in cooked foods) I am not overweight, but I am also not underweight, just a healthy 28 year old.
I hope to receive lots of input on this, because I get confused from time to time about mixed messages concerning whether it is normal/good to eat such high amounts of foods, and in my case, eating until I get physically ill just to avoid binging on cooked foods (because if I eat until I can no longer fit anything into my stomach... cooked food no longer looks tempting, because NOTHING looks tempting at that point ;))
What is very interesting to notice in myself is the following change/evolution... the more I learn, and on this lifestyle it is like you never stop learning, the more facts and studies I read, the more lectures from Dr. Graham I watch, the less appealing certain foods have become to me (like oils for example) which does help in the binging department... but still not entirely, sometimes I still feel like just having a dirty disgusting vegan junk bingeweekend.
Tags: anorexia, binge, bulimia, cooked, disorder, eating, raw, vegan
Permalink Reply by Greenmama on I am with you, Apollonia. I suffer from compulsive overeating and from compulsive undereating. And from lack of awareness of my true hunger signals and being susceptible to going off-plan when undercarbed.
I go to OA and I listen to a lot of people speak. I also listen to a lot of OA tapes with people's stories. It seems like a vast majority of people get sucked into EDs through a combo of trauma and lack of needs met during childhood because of our crazy society. They get fixated on eating numbing "foods" for comfort or on obtaining a certain body shape, and then their actions lead them to be undercarbed, which leads to a cycle of restricting and binge-ing. It's sad to hear these people working a great spiritual and emotional program, which helps them greatly, while being totally under-carbed. They pray harder, they try harder, but it often doesn't work out long-term. OA supposedly has a much worse long-term success rate than AA, and my personal opinion is that it's because so many people are trying to do 1200 calorie diets, low carb diets, etc.
So what am I saying? I don't think it's either/or.
You can trigger "disordered eating" by being chronically under-carbed. I agree with DR on that! I work in an office with a lady who is a self-proclaimed "emotional eater." She restricts carbs and calories. Then she gets totally stressed out about her daughter doing this or that, or the car breaking down. (Probably something she would blow off if she weren't so hungry and tired.) She eats one serving of chips, one serving of chocolate. She feels guilty. Later that night, she might eat another serving of chips and another serving of candy. She maintains her weight and can stop after a pre-determined serving, however.
I cannot. If I start eating chips, I am going to eat the BAG...the family-sized bag. I am going to be obsessing about chips for days. I am going to be headed out to the gas station late at night to get myself more junk every chance I get for days, or white-knuckling it to stop myself from doing that. When I started 80-10-10, my cravings for chocolate, ice cream, and sweets went away entirely. I was amazed and thought, yeah, I just needed carbs. My obsession for sweets was quickly replaced by an obsession with salty, starchy, fatty foods. I remember being obsessed with food since early childhood. (I came from a background of abuse and my father was a compulsive overeater, too.) I am a compulsive overeater and I need a spiritual program to help me recover one day at a time. I can't eat certain items, just like an alcoholic can't take that first drink.
However, I also need to carb up and do everything I can to make sure that I am taking care of my physical needs or I can't recover either. I learned that the hard way.
Oh gosh Greenmama, you put that so well into words!!!
I COMPLETELY agree with you that being undercarbed makes the situation worse, in fact, I know from the past, when i used to go through phases of intentionally restricting my carbs (this was after i had recovered from my psychological disorders anorexia and bulimia), the feelings i had when i first became anorexic surface... which is a really eerie thing! People who have not had anorexia or a compulsive overeating issue like yourself, do not understand how trapping a disease it is, it is not simple about "overeating" on some chips and then feeling guilty... it is a trapping mental place you get sucked into, and it is very hard to get out of, because eating disorders, especially the ones i have experienced, are about the illussion of CONTROL, that is until they suck you in and you can no longer live without it and it controls YOU. I have been in the hospital many times, not because I was undercarbed obviously, but because I was SO afraid to eat anything that i had starved myself to a place where i was about to die. I literally was on the border of death one time. So you can imagine that the idea that people with anorexia are simply undercarbed is a littttle out there for me, as I have lived it.
I totally feel you when you compare yourself to the lady working in your office... after i recovered from anorexia i started binging soon after, and it was exciting to me because i was no longer really afraid of foods, i just wanted to eat eat eat until i passed out, not because i was hungry... i was at a point where i was never hungry, i just wanted to eat everything i could get my hands on, to stop the thoughts in my head from going (you notice how when you eat lots of heavy fatty foods your mind gets super cloudy and can barely think??? well, this is why people binge on those foods...) and kept on going until i felt so sick i was about to burst, and then STILL kept on stuffing myself, which is very bulimic.
And I also agree with you that carbing up is very important, absolutely. It just is not the cure to a psychological disorder that stemmed from something much deeper from our childhood and life experiences.
Permalink Reply by DURIANRIDER on Is it natural to eat healthy amounts? Yes.
Is it normal to feel a bit uncomfortable at the start? Yes
Is eating the old foods better than eating fruit? Do the experiment. Do what works for you.
Do you really need to give yourself permission to eat like you would in nature?
Time to stop analysing everything via your old anorexic mentality. Time to LIVE!
TIME TO FEAST! :)
Let the losers around you feel guilty for eating foods that destroy the animals, their health and the planet.
You feeling guilty for doing the right thing..how constructive is that?
Feel free to attach yourself to negative mindsets or positive mindsets. Its just a choice in the moment to focus on positivity.
Exactly, in healthy amounts... but you didn't answer my question Durianrider, is it healthy to eat so much that you are about to burst?
I am used to feeling "uncomfortable" with a ridiculously full belly, because I used to be bulimic, which as you know, is a disorder where people binge until they are about to burst (and then purge either through throwing up, exercise, calorie restriction after or laxative abuse) I want you to understand what I am questioning is, is it really good to keep on eating long past you no longer feel any PHYSICAL (not mental!) desire to put something in your mouth (because you're overloaded and actually nauseous)? Surely you understand what I am writing?
I would really like a coherent reply, especially from you, because I learnt so much from you :)
P.S. I don't believe in guilt when it comes to eating :)
And I definitely do not feel guilty about eating 5000 calories a day, in fact, I believe in it because I like the idea that we can eat all we want and always feel amazing, because fruits and veg is what the earth gave us and it just makes SENSE. I feel so much better when i eat this way, high on the carb, lots of water and sleep... I do not get pimples, NONE! Especially without overt fats. The only thing I am questioning is my behaviour when it comes to eating myself physically sick/nauseous. Most people without a past in eating disorders will stop when they feel full... I just keep going. Bulimic conditioning I suppose...
Permalink Reply by DURIANRIDER on you should eat till the thought of another mouthful sounds disgusting. Its like getting a massage. Its time to stop the massage when you have had enough.
'about to burst' is very subjective as its open to different interperation. My definition of 'about to burst' would be 50 bananas in a sitting. Some people eat 3 and they think 'Im about to burst! Thats just TOO MUCH FRUIT MAN!'
If you have mental or physical desire for fruit, then you havent finished eating. Thats my answer.
Its like I have a box of dates in front of me. I eat 3lbs. The last bite should be physically 'discomforting'. Mentally you dont want to see dates anymore. Its like a running race. You are spent both mentally and physically otherwise you didnt really race.
You should eat to satisfaction. Thats going to be different for different people. Some people make stuff up in their head so they eat less and therefore live less. Look at a mosquito. They literally look like they are about to burst relative to what they look like before they eat. You should have a MASSIVE belly after a meal. Like all animals do when they eat a meal. Tigers, spiders, moths, mosquitos, chimps etc. They all eat till they cant eat no more. Vultures MUST vomit in order to fly off the ground if a possible predator comes along. So yeah, when you eat enough, you cant set a pb straight after lol!
Does that answer the question? If not, let me know.
'eat till you physically and mentally cant eat no more'. Till your SPENT! Its what every animal in nature does given the opportunity. NO EXCEPTIONS. If anyone can think of any, let me know too.
eat to failure lol! eat till your about to spray mango over your apple mac then back off and have a rest and hit it again later on. thats the beauty of eating to numbers. its like running to pace or dancing to a beat or planting to the calendar. It takes out the mental bs we put up to prevent us reaching our goals.
This is a video showing a man eating a 4000cal meal. At 1:49 he starts to physically reach a limit but overcomes it well mentally. Furious pete is getting enough cals and taking charge. Its trash cals but he is getting enough. Thats why some raw fooders fail so epically vs nutella gorillas cos they dont eat enough. They are getting more quality but not enough quantity. Even if someone gave me a million dollars, I couldnt eat 4000cals of fruit in 2:30. Look how big that volume is compared to a large 4000cal handful of nutella.
Permalink Reply by fruitsandnumbers on Harley, please let me express my most sincere and humble admiration for your person. Each word of yours is a shinning jewel of truth and wisdom. There's more wisdom in your words than in a hundred thousand books put together. You're so simple when you speak, so unpretentious, yet so profound and penetrating. You're one of the greatest and noblest people who have ever crossed the face of the earth. We are so lucky to live on your shadow. We shine by your light. We're enlightened by your enlightenment.
Please don't feel flattered by my sayings; they're short of what you deserve. I only can't resist giving someone so blessed and high as you the hommage he's due. I think Apollonia here should really listen to your wise words. She could benefit so much from them!
And most importantly, you're so willing to help her! It's deeply moving.
Durianrider, thank you very much for giving me the answer I was looking for. I indeed wanted to know if it is normal and good to yes eat so much that the idea of putting one more thing into your mouth might have you running to the lavatory to throw up... like "that last banana did her in!!!". that kind of action :P nothing like "oh gosh i ate 3 bananas now i feel so fat", no I really do mean eating so much that you feel it will come out again unless you stop eating.
It sounds like I am doing it good then :))
It feels really really good to be unrestricted, perhaps this explains why people want to eat all the time, and why it makes most of them fat... because most people have the wrong food choices :)
Thanks a lot for being clear and calm with me, very very appreciated.
Much love.
Permalink Reply by Sean big Sexy Rich Ⓥ on 
Permalink Reply by vegan witch Ⓥ on
Is it normal, good, and even natural to eat so much and keep on eating until you're about to burst, just to prevent a cooked food binge? I know myself... coming from a background of anorexia and bulimia, that on this lifestyle, if I do not completely stuff myself until I feel like I am going to be sick, the temptations to eat cooked vegan foods are still out there (not talking about rice or sweet potatoes, talking about soy ice cream and other junk...) I know a lot of people here do not believe there is such a thing as over-eating on fruits, but I have noticed that some people do seem to think this is possible, like Chris Califano, whose views and input around the forums I always find real interesting, being one of them (unless I understood you wrong, Chris).
eating nutrient rich raw fruits and veggies without calorie limits allows your body to say when its full rather than a outside infulence which donest know dictating to it - simply eat till your full and do some exercise once a day even if its a walk around the block.
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