I have a question for you all and I am looking forward to input because I know there are so many people around here at 30bad that are so well educated and experienced in health, natural hygene, raw veganism, etc.
So here it goes...
Is it normal, good, and even natural to eat so much and keep on eating until you're about to burst, just to prevent a cooked food binge? I know myself... coming from a background of anorexia and bulimia, that on this lifestyle, if I do not completely stuff myself until I feel like I am going to be sick, the temptations to eat cooked vegan foods are still out there (not talking about rice or sweet potatoes, talking about soy ice cream and other junk...) I know a lot of people here do not believe there is such a thing as over-eating on fruits, but I have noticed that some people do seem to think this is possible, like Chris Califano, whose views and input around the forums I always find real interesting, being one of them (unless I understood you wrong, Chris).
Durianrider, you often say that emotional eating doesn't exist, and that wanting to binge out on cooked foods just means you didn't get enough carbs... but is it good for someone to eat so much that they feel literally sick in their stomach from eating too much, just to prevent a cooked food binge?
I have been getting better and better on this lifestyle, but over the past year and a half, I have had plenty a set-back, I will do great, make sure I am always surrounded by a SEA of fresh raw fruits and lotttttts of medjool dates, I get my greens in, I exercise, drink filtered water like there is no tomorrow, I sleep as long as I can and without alarmclock (unless I have an early appointment that i can't miss), and go for as much outside time as I can. And still I get times where I just want to buy every single vegan cookie, ice cream and chips item in the store and eat it all alone in my home, DESPITE knowing how awful I will feel physically and mentally the next day(s). It is not like I am eating only 2000 calories and then wonder, gee, why did I just binge on potato chips?
It seems Durianrider and I will never see eye to eye on this, that anorexia and bulimia are psychological disorders and not just a cause of low carb intake, but that is fine, that is not really what this is about anyway.
I would just like to know if it is a good idea to really stuff yourself in order to prevent cooked food binges?
Before you assume that I have an anorexic stomach... this is not the case, I have thankfully been recovered from anorexia for years, from bulimia too, but I still have binge attacks, just not followed by purging any more :) thankfully. I can eat hormonal always eating teen boys under the table, I work in an all men environment and I can eat ALL of them under the table :P (even in cooked foods) I am not overweight, but I am also not underweight, just a healthy 28 year old.
I hope to receive lots of input on this, because I get confused from time to time about mixed messages concerning whether it is normal/good to eat such high amounts of foods, and in my case, eating until I get physically ill just to avoid binging on cooked foods (because if I eat until I can no longer fit anything into my stomach... cooked food no longer looks tempting, because NOTHING looks tempting at that point ;))
What is very interesting to notice in myself is the following change/evolution... the more I learn, and on this lifestyle it is like you never stop learning, the more facts and studies I read, the more lectures from Dr. Graham I watch, the less appealing certain foods have become to me (like oils for example) which does help in the binging department... but still not entirely, sometimes I still feel like just having a dirty disgusting vegan junk bingeweekend.
I can't thank you enough for your thorough lesson in neuroscience. You're certainly very knowledgeable about what you say. You have truly illuminated me. I now see I was living in the darkness and you've opened up a whole new worldview to me. Thank you of all my heart!
It's clear that all the knowledge you gathered has helped you immensely to overcome your difficulties, and I think everyone here would benefit enormously if they only let themselves be illuminated by your words (including Apollonia!)
Apollonia is right, you are indeed very eloquent. And there's a very high information to noise ratio in your speech. You're truly an inspiration to all of us. If you've been able to overcome all the hardships you've been through then I have too say that you're truly a warrior and a shining example to all of us of how we can always deal with our problems no matter how hard and unassailable they may seem. You're as brave as a lioness! And your braveness is an inspiration for us to be braver!
Your presence is an honor and an encouragement to us all. Thank you for being here with us sharing your knowledge and your life story. We shine by your light. You have become one of my lighthouses.
Love to you and your family,
Daniel <3 <3 <3
Oh, Daniel, I am blushing a bit. Trust me, I am still a work in progress! I am so grateful you found what I shared helpful. I was feeling a bit discouraged earlier today, and your enthusiasm brightened my outlook. Thank you.
You're amazingly eloquent in how you put this Greenmama...
That was along the lines what I was thinking, we are no longer animals in nature. I really like how you put that :)
Besides, I'd like to point out that animals are sensitive too, no I am not saying that animals have anorexia and bulimia, but I remember when I was a teenager living with my parents, and i was seriously anorexic, like you see in the worst case scenario insane mad-house material kind of anorexic, and our poor dog felt all the stresses going on between my parents and me and he had a hard time eating. And look at the animals in shelters, i recently was in an animal shelter to donate some toys and blankets and the animals there clearly are deranged by the trauma they have been put through (mostly by humans of course). So trauma affects, no doubt about it... and as humans we have come to deal with so many issues: social, psycholigical, relational, physical (we often lose touch with our own bodies BECAUSE we live in such a weird out of touch kind of society that feeds itself foods that weren't meant for consumption in the first place), etc.
I appreciate everyone here who has put in their time to offer advice and tips and just their attention and love. I am very grateful for such kind souls :)
Having said that, I do not have to agree with everything... yes, I agree that people have a choice, and giving our bodies the best it deserves, the love it deserves, the rest it deserves is going to help us heal. Life seems simple in that way, but along the ride some people got hurt (some in unimagineable cruel ways) and for people to say to "JUST DO IT" and "stop acting like a victim", is a little bit unthoughtful. NOT in a mean or cruel way at all, but literally what the word un-tought-ful means, you might have never been in the person's shoes, so you can not imagine how they are affected, and in that way they seem unthoughtful, because they perhaps can't "think" themselves in the other's place.
Again, I agree with the fact that we can take charge of our own life. No we cannot undo the ways we have been hurt, but we can take charge of NOW. And we can take charge of how we treat our memories, absolutely.
Thank you, Appolonia. This is a very wise response.
And also, I want to tell you that I do believe it is possible to heal from trauma and I have discovered some people doing very cutting edge and cool work in this area! It has to do with empathy and with core belief transformation. It has helped me a lot and I still have more to work on, but I am a lot better and more functional (and therefore able to more often put myself in the other person's shoes and be compassionate).
I don't think it's bad to encourage people to stop thinking negatively, it's just that usually advice doesn't help and empathy does. Twelve-step groups actually encourage empathy by not allowing cross-talk while people are sharing in meetings. When someone is speaking you are not allowed to interrupt. After they share, you are not supposed to give them advice or respond directly to what they say. In this way, when people share, others just really listen and give silent empathy.
It is good to hear from someone that understands bulimia... the insane amounts of foods we can put away (I never threw up, I used to overexercise manically and use laxatives) and the current struggle that comes forth from wanting to destroy yourself versus wanting to live and be happy.
Often it seems to me that a lot of people here think that bulimia is eating 10 bananas and then going "oh no! i feel so fat now!"
That is NOT what bulimia is, as you stated nicely above :)
I definitely agree with making nothing taboo, the mind becomes obstinate and goes "Ohh... so you say I can't have it? THEN I WANT IT!" our minds are like little kids sometimes haha
What I do think that makes sense, is when you no longer see these "foods" as actual food, like what happened to me when I first went vegetarian,... meat no longer seemed like food to me, so I immediately stopped eating it, and NEVER looked back... and what happened to me when I went vegan, suddenly dairy and eggs no longer seemed foods to me, but products that kept the animals I was no longer consuming enslaved, and so as long as i would continue to eat the dairy and eggs, i would still be participating. I feel that this is natural progress, and this is where I am going to get with other vegan cooked 'foods', the moment you realise "wait a minute, cooked food is no longer really food!", that is the moment you will never ever look back. I am getting close... learning a lot about oils has really turned me off of oils.
Thanks for replying to this thread, it really is good to hear from someone who knows where I come from :) would you like to keep in touch??
I would love to keep in touch :)
You've got it right! Eventually cooked foods turn into "non-foods" and the process is very natural. But until then, we need to go easy on ourselves.. respect ourselves and our bodies... as well as allow ourselves to be open to the lessons that lay before us. Words can not express all that I have learned, since going fruity, about myself, the world, the universe, every living creature... and love.
♥ ♥ ♥
I'm sorry if I sounded a bit too incisive in my last comment; it's just that I thought you needed a little shake in order to wake up. You're truly a wonderful and wise person with beautiful values who is already doing a lot for yourself and the world, as others have already pointed out. You have already achieved so much! I'm absolutely sure you can overcome your last difficulties and finally achieve your full potential and thrive even more than you already thrive. We're all here to encourage you. We support you in every moment.
I'm sorry if I don't fully understand you or don't fully appreciate all the difficulties you're going through. I'm sorry if I sometimes say silly or unhelpful things... I just wanted you to know that you're not alone at this: you got lots and lots of friends here, tons of amazing people who sincerely care about you and are sincerely willing to help you whenever you need help. You can always count on us! We'll never leave you or deceive you.
Your happiness is my greatest happiness, your sadness also my sadness. I share all of your emotions.
I'm looking forward to hearing good news from you!
luv n affection,
Daniel <3 <3
P.S. Why don't you try out banana island or date island? You'd feel sooooo great! Just like you're craving for.
I recommend you try just not caring at all when you "binge" on fruit
If you really want to kick the gig reduce your stress!
Life is good! Live it fully and you won't have the energy to waste it on sabotaging yourself.
Totally agree! Very wise words.
Wow Laura! :)
It is so good to read this... I DEFINITELY know what you mean when you say that you bounce back faster after shoving mounds and mounds and mounds of fruit (all in one sitting) into your mouth... Fruit IS very giving, it doesn't leave you with what I like to call "food hangover", like these dreadful cooked salty fatty overly processed foods do...
I like how you describe your habit as the size of interstate highways, because it shows that you get me! haha
It is a habit in the end.... and we can change habits. In the meanwhile, I will do as you do, and just when I feel the need to isolate myself for a night or a weekend, and eat unstoppably (like bulimics do ;)), it is going to be on fruit only... solves the hangover and actually, I feel if we do this behaviour with fruits, the habit with eventually subside, as the whole perpose of bulimia is destructive, and eating lots and lots of fruits can never be destructive, hence it no longer serving it's perpose.
Thanks a lot!!!
Much love to you as well :D
it's so moving to see how your words are acquiring a more positive and vibrant tone! You're becoming a new and lighter and happier person! Soon you'll have no more need to destroy yourself and to impede yourself from achieving your goals and realizing your dreams. We all love you so much! And you have such a capacity to love! You just have to learn to love yourself.
luv <3 <3 <3
Smile! :) :) :) :) :))
I looked at the pic of your fruit stash and its pretty dismal. Its reflective of the society we live in. Ripe fruit is hard to find.
Im in Thailand and if you gave me $50 000 to find 5000cals of ripe fruit I could go ride and come back with ripe fruit in a few hours. Alternatively I could get 5000cal worth of pizza in 5 minutes just with a telephone call.
So what your doing is eating unripe fruit, thinking your getting enough cals but all your really getting is vitamin water wrapped in fruit skin. Then you want to eat the house and feel guilty. All your doing is eating low cal fruits that are unripe and of low quality.
Secret is getting boxes of dates and organic bananas. Yeah it can be a struggle for sure.
KEY POINT: NEVER feel guilty for having hunger as a fruit eater in a fruit phobic world. Its a bit like being a mosquito stuck in an empty apartment. Move to where there is a crowd of people (fruit).
I remember a friend eating kiwi fruit and saying 'Im so full but Im still wanting food!!' I said 'bro, I dont even call kiwi fruit, oranges etc as food. They are vitamin snacks. Nothing more.'
Eating ripe enough fruit can be a real problem! And we often think fruit is ripe when it's really unripe.
My advice to getting ripe enough fruit is when you chose fruit to buy don't chose the cutest and most fragile ones as people often do, cos those ones are gonna be eaten by our little friends before they're totally ripe. Rather, chose the robustest, strongest, sturdiest ones. Appearances can be very decieving! The best persimmons are not the ones with a perfectly red and soft skin, but rather the harder ones full of black spots on the skin; these ones are heavenly sweet! The other day I had some bananas that if you looked at their skin, most folks would believe they were rotten: terribly ugly skin, and full of fungus; then I opened then and they were as sweet as nectar, probably the best bananas I ever ate in all my life. Ripe fruit is ambrosia, unripe fruit is just bland and dull.
I'd like to hear other people's opinions about this since it's so important for everyone. I think we should even start a separate thread on this topic; and of course Apollonia should participate.
Apollonia, please take a time to read this since I think it's very very important for you.
P.S. You have a beautiful name, Apollonia!