Hi there as I have posted previously I dont feel so good at all with too many (calories from) fruits. Maybe it has to do with that I might suffer from some kind of diverticulitis. Anyhow, I often wondered why my digestion was "so slow". When I have been cycling with my girlfriend she could always p**p very fast and many times every day, and she got much more hungry than me always. I could never quite explain that but now I guess that the food was somehow stuck in my intestines and just was blocked or at least heavily delayed somewhere.
Now im over one month on the 80/10/10 diet and my belly has never been bloated extremely but somewhat it has been. That has gotten better in the last month but not completely. If I try to eat that kind of quantities that are recommended on 811rv I just get this fatigue and want to lie down all day and have the feeling that the food is stuck in my intestines, guts or colon somewhere and does not get digested as it should be. I know some of you will tell me to give it more time but hey it really does not feel good as it is and I dont really want to wait for many month to come until being able to see little improvements.
So now I am seriously considering water fasting, juice fasting, enemas and CHT. This site:
http://www.ehow.com/way_5615379_alternative-medicines-diverticuliti...
e.g. recommends water & juice fasts / liquid diets over perhaps even a long time like several month and recommends enemas and CHT's. So I know for a fairly healthy person it is not recommended to do that kind of stuff but in my case I have the feeling it may be wise to act somehow. What recommendations can you give me on that topic?
Thx in advance!!!
Permalink Reply by mark grinage on Please see a doctor in case you are blocked. As for the fatigue it is perfectly normal, because raw fresh fruits and vegetables purify your system and all of the toxins and fat are in your blood stream to be eliminated. For myself if i detox and get fatigued toooooo bad I eat some tomato sauce like ragu or something warmed to shut off the detox. Any time you eat cooked food your detox will stop. As for the ammount of calories i am 273 pounds and i do not eat as much as others i have seen or heard of. Your calorie intake depends upon the ammount of activity or lack there of, Please please do not over eat if you are satisfied than stop. The only time i count carbs is when I eat like a can of olives or a store bought sauce that i did not make myself. My mother had diverticulitis aand it can KILL! Please see your doctor just to be on the safe side. Recently I had gall bladder removal, my system could not handle fried food at all, and any kinda of cooked food makes me like what?
well please give it time take advice with a grain of salt because you are in your body and whats good for one might not be good for you. so take it one day at a time and fresh is best. Hope this helped. don't give up this is a great plan here, but maybe you might have to tweek it a bit to suit your specific bodily individual needs.
God Bless
Permalink Reply by PK on Ben,
I know this post might get long, but what I and the 30BaD team recommend here is to help you thrive long term, and not just do ok short term. I hope at least some of this helps.
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Why do you think you have diverticulitis? Did a doctor tell you this?
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It is still recommended that you strive for about 3K calories a day to avoid malnutrition and nutritional deficiencies long term.
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Post Meal Tiredness:
Actually, in nature, many of our primate cousins do take afternoon naps, so in human beings, it should not come as a surprise that some of us need to rest after eating and during heavy digestion. Personally, on days I have to work (I am a sub teacher), I eat light in the morning and at lunch, and save the heavy eating for the evening when I can sit down and enjoy my food and relax.
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Slowed digestion,
Are you eating cruciferous veggies like brocoli and root veggies like carrots?
Here is a list of optimum foods:
http://rawschool.com/best-raw-foods/
Since I do not know, I am going to go ahead and say that based on personal experience and in dealing with struggling new members, the 30BaD team recommends not eating cruciferous and root veggies.
quoting banana wagon tour...
Diet in a Banana Peel:
Whole, fresh, raw fruits and leafy greens like romaine lettuce, with a minimum of 2500 calories for females and 3,000 calories for males for high energy and no vitamin and mineral deficiencies.
Eat little or no overt fats like those found in nuts and avocados. Fats gunk up the blood stream and coat cells preventing absorption of vitamins and minerals and calories leading to deficiencies and tiredness and not being able to perform optimally. Fats can also cause digestive difficulties and do not mix well with fruits.
For optimum digestion, avoid cruciferous veggies like broccoli and cauliflower, and root vegetables like carrots. Some of our members have had problems like diarrhea, gas, and bloating from these vegetables and or slowed digestion which makes it difficult to eat enough calories during the day.
Sleep 9 hours a night, drink more than 8 cups of water a day and pee clear, exercise 30 minutes a day even if it is just walking, get 30 minutes of sunlight a day for vitamin D and mental health.
BTW, there is an art form in regards to water drinking too. I drink about 30 minutes before a meal, and not again until 1-2 hours after a meal.
http://durianrider.org/2011/04/10/when-to-eat-for-max-life-performa...
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The case against juicing:
Based on personal experience and dealing with members of 30BaD, we recommend skip the juicing and here is why:
Many of our members have had troubles with juicing such as indigestion, sour and or acidic stomach, acid reflux, blood sugar spikes, dizziness and brain fog, diarrhea, constipation, and inability to absorb and assimilate calories, vitamins and minerals in spite of high calorie count.
Juicing removes the fiber from the fruits n veggies.
Fiber is much needed in our intestines to regulate hydration and water absorption, to slow down digestion so that the body can slowly and properly assimilate vitamins and minerals, prevents blood sugar hikes, and prevents diarrhea and constipation.
Without this fiber, nutrients, calories, and carbohydrates can pass right through the system without being digested and assimilated and possibly lead to weight loss and or malnutrition.
It is better to train yourself and your digestive system right from the beginning to properly chew, digest, and assimilate fruits and leafy greens.
If you are having a difficult time with calories, then smoothies might be a compromise. With smoothies, the whole fruits and greens are blended and some of the fiber is still intact.
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And last but not least, 30BaD does not recommend getting enemas and things like colonics and here is why:
30BaD’s Stance On Colonics and Enemas
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For people starting this diet with digestive problems, many of our members have had good results doing a few days of a fruit island. For example, eating bananas only for three days then slowly adding in other things. Some of us have to learn and or teach our bodies how to eat right for the first time. When baby is learning to eat, (s)he will be given one kind of food at a time for a few days, and then new things are added. This way, if the baby has a reaction to a certain food, mom knows right away what the cause is.
Good luck, and hope things smooth out for you.
Peace, PK
Permalink Reply by Ben on Thanks a lot for your long reply. No doctor told me that I would have this. I just have this very very slow digestion for perhaps ten / thirteen years. My girlfriend always used to p**p so much faster, other people as well. I had the feeling I was never hungry when other people were having their next meal. I felt for me it would have been too early to eat again. Then, my lower belly has, even when I was very slim, always still been there. Anyhow this is why I think it may be this. To most doctors I would'nt really wanna go to because I think they will mostly just treat symptoms and will wanna give medical drugs etc. so I dont think that it would treat the root of a problem. So I dont really wanna go to a doctor.
But perhaps I have to give it some more time. I have been 811rv for over a month now. I ate overts only one meal overts per week (One time the "overts" were 1kg of durian and the other overt meals were avocado / nut dishes, as said one time per week only). All the other meals on 6 days and 2/3rds totally overt free. So I guess I just have to wait longer. I read in another post that a lady said she now has 3-6 BMs per day after three years on 811 after previously only being able to P**p with the aid of laxatives.
I try to go to the gym 4 times a week and have been doing jogging in the last half year kind of every day. But as I wrote in the beginning of 811rv I felt not energetic enough at all to do the daily jogging or to go to the gym. With the cooked potatoes before I felt to have had more energy.
With the juicing, I am totally convinced not to make fruit juices. (On the other hand durianrider states in some videos on youtube that he does drink bottled juices). Sometimes though I do my green juices and, honestly, I know I shall not recommend them and I will not do that. But honestly I am not yet totally convinced to not do them any more, as I have never felt better in my life than on this green-and-veggie only juice fast/feast. Also that was the only time when I was apparently building muscle in the gym, whereas all the other times with the weights in the gym I was kinda stagnating. And in the Gerson therapy or also the Breuss therapy, "incurable" cancer patients got healthy againg and these diets included drinking lots of fresh raw juices. But it may be just as you say and I may decide that one day if 811rv just works as well as I hope to say that I dont need them any more or that I will even feel better in my body with not making any juices at all any more. So I will just see how it goes with the 811rv diet.
And, honestly, I may try to improve on going to bed early enough to get more sleep and perhaps improve with the drinking as well. Anyhow I know durianrider says to better drink bad water than no water at all but still I was not clear about what kind of water to drink but now I have bought a water filter and ionizer to be installed at home and Im looking forward to having that & be drinking lots of water with a good feeling now also.
BTW I have not been eating / drinking any cruciferous veggies in the last month on 811rv.
Well anyhow I will just continue with it as I am really convinced that my body feels really good about having raw food and not having all the fats other raw food systems have because I felt them slowing my metabolism down and not giving me a good feeling in my body.
Anyhow it has improved somewhat anyway I just wish it was more but hey I'll stick with it anyway and tell you how it goes ;-)
Permalink Reply by Ben on what I actually do eat at the moment, is a lot of pineapples, I love berries like blueberries, , mangos, papaya, I eat bananas and dates, very rarely dried figs or oranges or grapefruits, kind a daily salad with greens like arugula or spinach or pok choi or kale or other salad often together with tomatoes cucumber celery, rarely sweet corn.
Overts only once per week, like avocado, or a few nuts like almonds or sunflower seeds or pumpkin seeds. Once 1kg of durian.
Thats the kind of diet I'm on mainly in the last month. What do you think of it?!? I mean not the total amount of calories, I have been entering it into nutridiary.com, but I mean, rather hows the composition. Thx!
Permalink Reply by samadhi on Hi Benny,
good to meet you again on this site. In my opinion the problem is that you have done a lot of fasting and juicing in the last two (or more?) years. Your intestine forgot how to digest "normal" food and has to relearn it. So be patient. And PK wrote already many good advices.
Om Shanti
Michael
Permalink Reply by Ben on Hi! What I have been describing here existed for as long as I was adult. These fasts were only recently in the last 1 and a half years but the condition with slow digestion and so on existed since I was adult.
Permalink Reply by Powee on BTW, kale is considered cruciferous.
Consider focusing on sweet fruits all day and drinking lots of blended smoothies.
Limit citruses for a while or eat some later in the day with or just before some greens.
Stick to the tenderest greens: baby romaine, baby spinach. Avoid the tougher greens to chew.
Consider making green juices as greens can be hard to digest.
Cut out all overt fats.
Avoid fruits with lots of seeds you ingest during eating such as raspberries, kiwi, watermelon, etc.
Read David Klein's Self Healing book.
good luck on your journey. you are on the right path.
Permalink Reply by Ben on Hi folks,
I just wanted to mention that my digestion has improved massively. Actually, it happend during my last long 30-day-raw-juice-fast/feast, around day 17-day 20. Since then, I feel energized and "clean" and my digestion turned to be really fast by now, several times a day BM, not the feeling of being constipated any more.
I am very happy that I did this very long fast and all the other ones before, even though some said I should not do it. But judging by how I feel now, it was a great thing to do it.
These days I stick to 80/10/10 or in the last days mostly 90/5/5 and it gets better and better.
What did I have today? Watermelon in the morning in between peaches and pineapple smoothie, for lunch a huge kiwi-banana-peach-blueberry-smoothie followed by a big green spinach-pok choi-parsley-apple-celery-juice.
Just to keep you updated :-)
P.S. When reading older posts, I realized that I had this slow digestion for years and now it seems to be gone - WOW ;-)
Permalink Reply by Chris P. on hmm... Well I am VERY happy for you that things seem to be moving along now, it is really uncomfortable when they are not.
I think if you had diverticulitis, you would know for sure if you had a flare, it is VERY painful!
Re: Fasting, I have read of some people having great success using a fast to cure a particular ailment. However, here's my problem, well not problem, but my skepticism about prescribing a fast for slow digestion. When you fast on water or on juice, you are cuttting out fiber which is the part of food that really helps to move things along and cleans out your system. I have read about people doing a long fast, then having a problem with slow digestion AFTER the fast is done. So coming off the fast tends to be listed as a very crucial step, they never recommend fasting and then just eating as normal directly afterwards, for this reason.
So anyway, I would caution against recommending fasting as a surfire way to take care of lagging digestion, unless a person knows for sure that keeping food out of the GI Tract is something that is prescribed for their particular condition. Most people tend to be constipated or slow because they are dehydrated or dont eat enough fiber.
As has been discussed elsewhere, fasting is not a part of the 30Bad paradigm since if you are eating and hydrating as described here, the fasting tends to be superfluous. You don't need to fast to cleanse either, because again if you eat as described here, you are already cutting out the junk, your body takes care of the rest like magic! :)
Permalink Reply by Ben on Yes that seems ok but you know for me, I was just getting overly tired from eating too many bananas or dates; I could not digest them. If you say to eat lots of fibre to clean out everything then I would certainly say that in my case it was necessary to cut out the low-water fruits, at least, like dates, and also, not too many bananas. Hydrate the body as much as possible. I drank one litre of herbal tea every day. Did the fasting. During the fast my digestion improved. It happened between day 17 / day 20. Now after the fast I am having 2 liters smoothie per day. Lots of fresh watery fruit & I love it and it is great. And now after this long fast my digestion also is really really fast & good (unlike it was before when I was also strictly doing 80/10/10) :-)
Permalink Reply by Chris P. on Hi Ben,
Well, 1L of herbal tea is not the guideline for hydration here, more than 2L of water is recommended. If you look at the guidelines here, it spells a lot of these things out. Check it out, it may be a help. Here's a link to the page:
http://www.30bananasaday.com/profiles/blogs/30bad-banana-wagon-tour
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure happy that you are feeling better now! If some how your fasting helped to facilitate that by cutting out something you were eating before, or maybe changing the hydration ratio between solid food you eat and drinking, (I don't know, just guessing here) then I am glad. The good result is that you are feeling better.
That said, I don't want to muddy the water by saying "therefore, people should fast to take care of constipation", or whatever. I want for people to not get blocked up in the first place. I think that the guidelines here, if followed, for most people, will tend to prevent slow digestion and constipation. In fact, one of the reasons I came here and stayed was because of precisely this. I did have diverticulitis, I had to go to the hospital, it was really terrible. But eating 80/10/10 has me on foods that are friendly to my digestion, far more friendly than standard or gourmet raw vegan. I find that if I eat as much as is recommended and drink as much water, my innards are moving along very nicely! But if I have a day where I really undereat or do not hydrate enough, I definitely notice things slowing down.
Like I mentioned before in another discussion, I do think there is a place for fasting, but I think it is for specific conditions, guided. In the same sort of way that as a doctor would not just give all their patients free access to antibiotics to take whenever they feel like it, is sort of the way I look at fasting. I have read that it can be very powerful, but especially for the reasons I mentioned about digestion being compromised and problem ensuing when a fast is improperly broken, I would be uncomfortable with people just sort of randomly and loosely fasting.
Also, I don't want people to read and mistakenly think "Oh, 80/10/10 is hard on digestion, but I can fix that by fasting." I think that it is highly likely that if someone is constipated on 80/10/10 or the 30Bad variant of 80/10/10, then they probably are doing/taking/eating something "off-plan". Not saying that with any negative judgement or anything and I don't want anyone who may be having trouble while trying to follow 80/10/10 to be afraid to ask for help, or ask questions! I just think it's really important to follow one plan at a time, if you are trying to evaluate a plan. Not follow some hybrid and then decide 80/10/10 (or whatever you are trying) didn't work.
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