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I've been following HCRV for awhile and started really getting into weight training about 3 months ago.. However, my muscle definition isn't showing, despite a LOT of weight training. 

 

I want to look something like Erin Moubray, but I'm not sure if I can get there as a follower of 80-10-10. She built her muscle on vegan protein powders and beans.. then went HCRV. Is it possible to build muscle like hers just through HCRV, and if so, how? 

I've been unbelievably confused about diet lately. I will always be vegan, but I feel like the physique and body type I'm looking for is built through higher-protein vegan diets, like that of Erin Moubray before and Jehina Malik now. That's the kind of tone I'm looking for, like Jehina's (you can look her up on YouTube). 

Does any female have experience with getting muscles like those on this diet alone? And if so, how much are you eating and how do you train?

Should I add more greens for more protein? Or a raw protein powder to supplement more protein, but stay in the 811 ratio? 

I'm currently training 6 days a week, alternating the muscle groups I work every day (like chest and back one day, shoulders and arms the next, legs and back, etc.) 

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Hey Fruity Fitness. I'm a long time 811-er (4 years) who stopped and became a cooked vegan with up to 20% fat calories about a year ago and since doing that gained about 10 lb extra. I've gone back to raw 811 but my body likes to stay at about 150 lb (I have a lot of muscle so I'm heavier). I've been bodybuilding hardcore for over a year and anxious to lower my body fat, and today made the decision I'd be willing to deal with temporary health issues and go low carb if that helps. I am finding 811 is not dropping fat fast enough, and yes, I know I SHOULD wait, but I don't want to. I want a fix NOW. However, now I'm nervous about doing a low carb vegan diet, if you had those issues? Do you think that was caused by animal products? I don't want permanent issues. I know it'll throw my body off but I am willing to do ANYTHING to drop 10 lb, period.Except eat animal products. I know from past experience that I don't regain weight easily, it's just hard for me to lose it. Would LOVE your opinion!

Hi Bliss!!!  I am still gaining weight in a horrible manner.  I look like I have aged 15+ years and look like a pig - just being honest.  I am really disgusted in what has happened to my body.  I want to believe I have lots of muscle underneath all this flabbiness, but I do not know anymore.  I wish I could fix mine NOW, too.  I am at a total loss and have tried everything possible.  I gave everything ample time to work, but only continued to deteriorate.  One thing I can say with 100% certainty, if you add back fats too quickly, you will gain weight.  Since you have been 80-10-10 for so long, you have to work fats back in slowly as your gallbladder has to get up to speed again.  My previous symptoms were probably due to animal products for sure, but my new sensitivities to fats are because of this lifestyle completely.  Understanding how the organs work/shut down when not needed, then trying to use them again by bombarding them with a higher macronutrient amount really stresses the body.  It is probably why I gained so much weight coming to 80-10-10 - I jumped ship from high fat/protein and pounded the carbs.  My body was not primed for it and look what happens.  I think that is why some drop so much weight so fast - they come from different backgrounds.  I would just use caution if you decide to increase the fats.  :)

Thanks Fruity Fitness, I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles :(. I really appreciate your feedback! Thank you! I'll definitely use caution if I use that route. Have you been 100% raw? What is the next step for you? I find it so bewildering... I've been on this board since at least 2006 or 2007 and in the first few years there were NEVER issues with people gaining, but now more and more people are gaining weight. I"m not sure if something else has changed or whether it is Raw Till 4, but it's so sad and I really hope you find that solution you need! I'm really curious, let me know if I can help somehow.

I was 100% raw for a solid year but only gained while I was raw.  I did not gain as much as I have on raw til 4, though.  I wonder what changed from 2006?  Do you think it was the introduction of cooked foods?  Since you have been around this long, have you solved many of your issues?  Or is that not what brought you to this community?  Growing up, I ALWAYS ate carbs and pretty low fat.  I was a big pasta eater with tomato sauce, nothing really added to it.  That was a staple in my household.  I always gravitated to fruits and veggies, more veggies and starch over fruit, but rarely ate meat, except when I was younger.  Never had a weight issue my entire life.  I underwent a very stressful time in my life in 2006 and again in 2009.  I also started lifting heavy weights in 2008-2009 and then began increasing my protein intake by A LOT.  I was drinking protein drinks (whey and soy), ate protein bars, made protein treats/cakes.  I just think my body could not handle the load, along with my workouts.  Maybe my body was weakened by the heavy stress from 2009.  In May 2012, my body broke and I have been avidly working to heal since that day.  I wish there was something you could do to help.  It was pointed out by a lovely lady on here (nakd nutrition) that my low temps are a problem even though my docs all think it was really good to have a lower temp and low blood pressure.    I have been diligently working to get my body temp back to normal, thus normalizing my metabolism.  I hope this is the answer to my healing. 

Well, I'm glad we're in conversation. I'm going to message you as I have a protocol that can raise your temperature but might be against this board's rules, not sure. I friend requested you so that I can message you. Have you checked on adrenal fatigue? Low Testosterone? High estrogen? Low Thyroid? Chinese medicine can work wonders when nothing else has. I have also suffered from something similar though not to the same extreme. Anyway, I'll share what I learned in a private message with you.

After I had my 2nd I lost all my baby weight and then some.  We were biking about 4 times per week for around 1.5 - 3 hrs hills and sandy path.  I didn't do much weight lifting at the time so I didn't look like either woman, but I did have many comments about my arms in particular.  At the time I didn't realize how fit I was, but I see it all now.  I'm doing INSANITY - no weights, but from all the results I've seen it builds muscle and melts fat.  The fit people get ripped.  It's an all out workout, I don't have to think which muscle group I'm working and I KNOW I'm gonna look good.

When I lifted weights I did about the same as you, but worked out 3 days per week to my max, raising the weight when I'd lifted/squatted/etc. to fail 8 times.  It works, for me, I build muscle fast, but I don't have the complete motivation to be consistent.  I eat peanut butter and celery after working out and eat as much fresh juicy fruit as possible (not at the same time) along with tons of water .  This helps me to drop weight and get those muscles...already noticing a difference with my arms getting thinner and more defined (need to take my measurements) from all the pushups.  

I'm only in 17 days of 63 of INSANITY, but I'm sticking with it...I'll let you know what happens as far as muscle definition for me.  I know that you'd do incredibly if you did this, but that's your decision!  Hope this helps.

Thanks! I was doing p90X, but I may try out insanity. Let me know how it turns out :)

Plain and simple. To build muscle you must lift heavy. No ifs ands or buts.

It sounds like you are way overtraining. I used to go to the gym once every 3 days and just heavy deadlift and squat and then crawl home and rest and then rest some more.

After a couple years the size and strength I accrued was second to none and there were very very few non drug induced lifters who could touch my muscle tone or strength.

If you want to stay active by walking and swimming and mobility exercises that would be fine also, but if you are able to lift everyday it says to me that the weights you are lifting are not nearly heavy enough to build any serious muscle.

Okay, I'm really confused. No woman I see that follows this lifestyle has the body-type I want. They're all either too skinny or too plump. I don't see any muscular women....

I've made improvements in my weights and reps but I don't see any change in muscle tone...I'm so confused on what to eat :( 

I'll always be vegan, but so far fruit has only given me negative results body-wise. Any comments/advice?

Whatever you eat you can't look like Erin in 3 months.  Keep that in mind.  She's spent many years building that body.

It's important to remember that the shape of these womens bodies will be determined by their body fat percentage and the development of their muscles. Outside of some water retention, the exact dietary method you take to get there is less important than the destination. (although being as healthy as possible will always help)

For example, these women have a bicep measurement around what I would consider 'normal' for a male (of the same height) who doesnt train. Except her biceps may actually be bigger, because a typical guy might be walking around at about 20% bodyfat, and Jehina's bodyfat would be less than 10, which is what gives them that amazing look for their size.


The difference between an amazingly toned and a flabby bulky looking bicep of the same size is always going to be the bodyfat %'age.
While these women may have less weight than a lot of women, their lean muscle mass is probably going to be much heavier.

Also consider that at any given bodyfat percentage, the fat storage location is largely determined by genetics. For example, when my bodyfat is low enough to show 4 abs, I still have large, awkward love handles.


You can get to your best and strongest possible you on an 80-10-10 diet, provided you increase your absolute muscle mass while reducing bodyfat. Just remember that you might not turn out like these women, who are models/bodybuilders for a reason.
Also please remember that these women do not stay as lean as they look for a show for a whole year, and will increase their bodyfat to probably 20%, which is enough to remove all that swet ab definition while they train to get bigger and stronger for the next competition.

If you're eating 3000 calories on 80-10-10, you're getting 75 grams of protein through your basic food sources, which is probably enough, even according to people outside the vegan community.

Alexandra, I did, in the past build a body similar to Jehina Mailk on pure 811(sadly lost my old pics). I was eating 4k to 5k calories a day and I became very big (for a girl) and defined. I even had a 4 pack. Guys would say they were scared of me LOL. I haven't had results that fast with building muscle than with 811. However, now I am carrying an extra 10% body fat due to reverting to cooked vegan a year ago and I am bodybuilding but not seeing definition due to my higher body fat. However, people tel me I look very strong and I look like a professional dancer etc. My glutes are also quite big from bodybuilding (not fat). So.... I think I am having the same results but they are covered in fat for now. I'm trying to lose the fat but it's not budging. I'm pretty frustrated but I know I must reset my metabolism witha  water fast. Contrary to popular belief, water fasts reset metabolism, they don't actually slow metabolism, speaking from my experience. Heck, I'll even try low carb to get rid of that last 10 lb!!! Can't believe I said that! As you can see from my pic below, it's hard to tell but I actually have built up a lot of muscle underneath all that fat! I think you can kind of tell I've got an athletic build but the fat covers it a bit. Make sense? It might also be your training. For years I couldn't gain muscle because I was doing it all wrong with the weights. Reps, cardio, recovery time, weights, pyramiding, etc. all make a TREMENDOUS difference. Let me know if you want me to share what I've found works for me for building!

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