Any ladies here makeup-free?

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Permalink Reply by pradtf on December 20, 2009 at 4:50pm

greetings carrie!

you write:
I have never really understood how testing products on animals could even be applicable to us since we have different genetics, not to detour from the fact that it is insanely harmful to them and cruel.

animal research is not applicable to humans for the very reasons you state. for further info on this you might want to look at kelin's thread:
http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/is-animal-cruelty-ever-okay
see the info regarding dr ray greek.

animal testing has nothing to do with consumer safety. in fact, it is quite the opposite in that it has everything to do with producer safety. the testing permits the producers to say that they've 'legally' followed safety guidelines by testing and therefore, if you have a bad reaction, you can't sue them (too easily). sometimes, you can unearth such dishonesty by probing the producer's research and development department (as we did).

they'll first tell you they do tests because their customer's safety is of paramount importance (blah, blah, blah) - in fact, they'll give that to you in writing.

if you question exactly what the test proves and why some customers still experience adverse reactions, they'll eventually get to something like they are required by law to test.

so when you point out to them that the law can't do anything about the reaction, you'll eventually get to the crux of the matter (which the frontline customer support people may not even realize), which is that because they've taken the 'legal' step of testing, they've met the necessary safety regulation (ie they've done their 'duty' however absurd and ineffective it may be).

eventually with some items the safety regulation doesn't prevent a massive lawsuit (though it can take some organization to get it going), so the item will be recalled. this has nothing to do with make-up, but here is a little list of drugs that have been recalled over the years (it is not exhaustive though):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_withdrawn_drugs
(notice how the density of withdrawals increase a we get into the new millenium because they aren't being allowed to get away with things quite as easily as the were able to before).

in friendship,
prad

Permalink Reply by Carrie-boo on December 20, 2009 at 5:06pm

Thank you Prad,

Some brilliant information there indeed.

It never ceases to amaze me that I am constantly learning and devouring more and more information like a beautifully ripe fig... you just seem to want more :P

XX

CC

Permalink Reply by pradtf on December 21, 2009 at 4:50pm

thank you carrie.
here's more along similar lines with a petition to sign:
http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/tell-clorox-stop-animal

in friendship,
prad

Permalink Reply by spekgirl on December 20, 2009 at 6:45pm

yup for about 5 months now.

Permalink Reply by Marte on December 20, 2009 at 8:14pm

I don't, and I never really did. I don't have time for that bullshit. I hardly have time to do my hair. I have more important things to do in my life.

But frankly I think it goes beyond make up. What about underwear? Bras pushing breasts up and restraining our lung capasity?

And what about body hair? Who ever decided that armpit hair makes you less female?!

Permalink Reply by Utopia on December 21, 2009 at 12:13am

I don't think having armpit hair makes you "less female."

I think some people like how it looks and feels for them to have hair or not have hair. I don't think everything has a subconscious or alternate reasoning that plays on gender biases or roles.....unless you're looking for an explanation. If you have a need to explain why people do a certain thing, you'd have to ask each individual person as everyone is different.

Permalink Reply by Freelee on December 21, 2009 at 4:53pm

I usually let my armpit hair grow, depends on my mood.

Permalink Reply by Marte on December 21, 2009 at 9:55am

I did not mean it in a condescending way.

If you re-read it it says "I have more important things to do in MY life". I am not saying that what is important to me is more important than other people doing what they chose. I am just saying that for me, makeup is bullshit. It takes so much time and energy from things I consider more important. I can't really say it less honest than that :)

Permalink Reply by pradtf on December 21, 2009 at 5:02pm

greetings liza!

i think you are misinterpreting marte's words.

she is quite precise with her comments referring to herself specifically
"I don't, and I never really did ..."

her's is clearly an "I" statement. not a "thou shalt" statement.

while she is critical of certain practises (and substantiates her viewpoint quite validly), it is incorrect to conclude that she is being condescending towards other women.

furthermore, it is completely appropriate for her to disapprove (ie the bs bit) of existing status quo (make-up, societal attitudes towards women etc) when she provides good reason to do so especially since this status quo can very well effect her.

make-up is likely a good commodity between people - regardless of who chooses or doesn't choose to wear it (as long as it is vegan, as you emphasize previously in the thread). ;)

in friendship,
prad

Permalink Reply by Paeter on December 20, 2009 at 10:41pm

interesting

Permalink Reply by Ellen on December 20, 2009 at 10:43pm

I like to wear lipstick sometimes. Sorry, Freelee! I think it's a personal choice, like coloring your hair or getting implants etc., but easier and more temporary (I haven't done either of those). I may put some henna in my hair one day too...

Permalink Reply by Janet Davidson on December 20, 2009 at 11:25pm

I have never worn lipstick or foundation but for the past five or six years I have worn cruelty-free organic natural mascara and until I started 80/10/10 I used organic cruelty-free blusher and occasionally powder too. There were no man-made chemicals in any of those products. I just still feel naked without mascara. I am 46 and have been wearing mascara since I was 12 years old. At least now I can venture to a shop or out for a walk without my mascara but that is only a recent development.

I have not used commercial deodorant or anti-perspirant for about five or six years. I fact I prefer to make my own toiletries now. I am appalled by the use of anti-perspirants anyway as people are just absorbing aluminium directly into their bodies. I believe that a lot of people don't know about these things, though. If I think I am going somewhere where I might sweat a lot like going dancing, I rub a bit of fair-trade coconut oil under my arms and dab on some bicarbonate of soda. It works better than anything else anyway and is very natural. As I have dry aging skin I use jojoba oil as a moisturiser day and night. My hair is very grey and I don't like it so I dye it myself with Aubrey Organics natural dark brown colour which consists of completely organic natural indigo and henna mixed into a powder. I make my own toothpaste from bicarb. of soda, peppermint oil, clove oil and tea tree oil.

I think it is very easy to condemn women for wearing make-up (especially if you have always been seen as an attractive person) but I spent many years believing I was ugly and I also had acne for many years so I feel that my mascara gave me confidence. I am just learning at this late stage of my life that I can have confidence without it but I still don't feel like "me" without it (if you know what I mean). I believe that there are a lot of very good organic cruelty-free companies out there especially in the US like Real Purity mascara and Aubrey Organics, Dr. Bronner's, etc. and no animals are tested either.

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