I'm in my second month of HCRV/HCCV and everything is going well, besides a few bloats here and swellings there, but it's also summer and extremely hot.
My husband is okay with my diet, he's omnivore-leaning-more-to-vegeterianism but the only thing that worries him is B12.
In his video Durianrider said that 40% of US alone, has a B12 deficiency regardless of diet, and that they need B12 shots anyway. It's a genetic trait that isn't linked to diet.
But what if you're in the 60% part and don't have this genetic trait, would I need B12 shots/suppliments?
Permalink Reply by vegan witch Ⓥ on B12 is in fact a man made GM substance - your body needs a extremely miniscule amount of cobalt but your body cant use straight cobalt because its inorganic - so they need combalamin bacteria that likes eating inorganic cobalt to eat the stuff and and defecate it out - their stools are high in "organic" cobalt feces and its their feces that is B12 - just thought youd like to know that.
you might like to check out this - http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/genetically-modified-gmo-b12
Permalink Reply by Hadley V. Baxendale on Everyone should take a B-12 supplement or use animal fertilizer on your plants and don't wash them well (B-12 is from bacteria which is why, for example, gorrillas eat their own feces (to get B-12) -- and why in India where they use animal and human feces as fertilizer and don't have good hygeine they get plenty of B-12). The better B-12 is sublingual methylcobalamin (the biologically active form). http://nutritionfacts.org/video/vegetarians-myelopathy/ and http://nutritionfacts.org/video/safest-source-of-b12/ and http://nutritionfacts.org/video/cheapest-source-of-vitamin-b12/
Our body does hold onto B-12 for quite a while so a person could (but not always) go for 12 years or so without B-12 and be fine, but the risk involved doesn't equal the reward of taking a supplement. So be safe and healthy with a B-12 supplement (which is necessary regardless of one's eating life-style but particularly necessary for an HCRV or HCCV (or both) raw vegan life-style.
As for the type of B-12 supplement I mentioned at the beginning: Methylcobalamin is the most potent form of Vitamin B12 found in nature. We need methylcobalamin for the healthy development and sustenance of our circulatory, immune and nervous systems.
Methylcobalamin is the only active form of Vitamin B-12 in the brain outside the mitochondrion. The liver must convert cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin in order for Vitamin B-12 to do its biochemical work in the brain. When the complex conversion of cyanocobalamin is not completed, the brain is robbed of the benefits of methylcobalamin. Cyanocobalamin is a by-product of Vitamin B-12 charcoal extraction. Scientific methods led people to believe that cyanocobalamin, not methylcobalamin was the naturally occurring form of Vitamin B-12. Cyanide in the charcoal replaces the methyl group in much the same way as it does in the body of a cigarette smoker. Vitamin B-12 requires the assistance of Intrinsic Factor to enter the body from the small intestine. Without Intrinsic Factor, dietary Vitamin B-12 or B-12-containing supplements go unabsorbed.
Autoimmune reactions and diseases sometimes destroy the stomach's parietal cells that produce Intrinsic Factor. Pernicious anemia results from this destructive process. More rarely, pernicious anemia develops when the body makes antibodies against the binding site of Intrinsic Factor. The antibodies rob Vitamin B-12 of the binding spot on Intrinsic Factor as it tries to make its way into the small intestine. Monthly injections of Vitamin B-12 can correct the anemia, immune and neurological problems that sneak up on people with pernicious anemia. With other forms of Vitamin B-12, the liver must use its enzyme systems to produce methylcobalamin.
Permalink Reply by Vice Abattoir on ah brilliant! thanks. I think i'll resort to the shots if the time comes, not really willing to add manure to my menu.
Permalink Reply by Hadley V. Baxendale on That means that you will need to have some blood work done; first to find out where you are vis-a-vis your B-12 levels, and then to monitor your levels each year. If you don't wash your organic fruit and vegetables or your hands (ever) then you will most likely get enough Vitamin B-12 although in an unpleasant way along with other "guests." <wink>
At least the methylcobalamin is not manure. The shots are typically used for those with severe B-12 deficiencies so be careful -- when you need a shot it a lot of physical and mental damage may already have been done (needlessly); B-12 and perhaps Vitamin D are the only supplements a person needs.
I had my blood work done and my B-12 level was off the charts in a good way, so I could probably stop using B-12 supplementation for the next 10 to 15 years before severe damage would take place; personally, putting a small pill under my tongue while making my raw blended smoothie for breakfast is just too easy and simple to do.
Permalink Reply by Vice Abattoir on Aye, i'm getting bloodworks done at the end of summer (i'm quite OCD with my health, i run blood tests minimum twice a year as a general check up, or during a new diet to see if i'm doing it right/if it suits me, plus my husband is one of those over-protective guys who worries even if i scratch my head)
I generally don't wash our own crops unconciously. Especially our fruit, i just pluck the figs off the tree and chomp them down.
I'm quite happy so far with the vegan diet (this is my second time around, but first on 'clean-non-processed foods vegan), i'm part time HCCV and part time HCRV, depending how much money i got, or if i found good fruits. I can safely say that HCCV isn't suiting me (the only cooked is pasta or rice, which is stupidly cheap and bulky)
My last blood tests, my iron levels were 30 points over the maximum (for example if the measure is 100-150 mine was 180) i'm quite confident i got a good absorbtion, however when you're partnered with someone overly protective, simple explainations don't quite do the trick to ease them.
I got the "we'll see" response and i'm already excited! With good blood tests and a good financial plan, i'll be able to lure him in too. I'll also get him to run blood tests, before and after a few months (he's part-time vegeterian) and blog about it =D
Permalink Reply by Peter Csere on I'm not convinced that the genetic trait has much to do with it. The SAD is so deficient in everything that you would not need a genetic predisposition for 40% of the population to be deficient in B12. All you have to do is drink alcohol and eat cooked food or smoke and not get enough sleep and BAM you're deficient.
Also, the bit about inorganic vs. organic, vegan witch... wouldn't plants contain an organic form of cobalt that the bacteria could feed upon? Generally, the inorganic form is found in the soil and the plants assimilate it into an organic form. It sounds odd to me that we'd have to ingest inorganic forms of cobalt in order for the bacteria to do their magic, since we aren't really supposed to be ingesting inorganic minerals at all. Functionally they are a toxin.
Permalink Reply by Reed on Shots are unnecessary in all but the worst cases of B-12 deficiency.
You can always buy very inexpensive sublingual B-12 (Cyanocobalamin) from Trader Joe's or other stores for about $5 in America.
Place the tiny tablet under your tongue and let it dissolve. They come in 1000 mcg size and that's 16,667% of your normal daily dose. Your body can store years of B-12 when you load it up so $5 worth is cheaper and safer then the shots.
Blood tests like hematocrit, hemoglobin, homocysteine and methylmalonic acid (MMA) will show if you have anemia and or B-12 deficiency..
Permalink Reply by Hadley V. Baxendale on Exactly. QED
Permalink Reply by Vice Abattoir on *nods* I run a full panel, but i'll add B12 this time too.
Permalink Reply by Eli on Reed, cyanocobalamin is highly toxic in large doses and much less bioavailable than the methylcobalamin/hydroxycobalamin forms of B-12.
Permalink Reply by Reed on I understand the concern but marketing hype and scare tactics play a role here as it's one of the most studied injectables in history with 19,813 scientific studies. Cyanocobalamin is by far the most widely used B12 for injectable, oral and sublingual form. - injection brand names, Cobal, Cyanoject, Cyomin, Viba.
If you end up in a hospital or doctors office for an injection, chances are extremely high that it's going to be cyanocobalamin.
The negligible cyanide hype was being used to hype other forms of B12 at 3-4 times the price. Now that the prices have dropped your free to pick whatever brand your comfortable with.
Quote:
" As of September 13, 2007 there were 19,813 scientific studies that investigated vitamin B-12 that were accessible there. Of these only 665 investigated hydroxycobalamin. This is about 3 percent. 490 investigated methylcobalamin. This is a little over 2 percent. 16,251 investigated cyanocobalamin. This is about 82 percent. There are no reports of toxicity from cyanocobalamin, hydroxycobalamin or methycobalamin in the 19,813 studies that investigated vitamin B-12. Cyanocobalamin is, by a great margin – over 82 percent, the most studied form of Vitamin B12.
Additionally, cyanocobalamin is used by more Americans every day than any other form of vitamin B12 without any reports of toxicity. There is absolutely no effective difference in the safety of these three forms."
Also note the absorption rates in this study:
Kayla Marie replied to Kelly Kurcina's discussion If still struggling with salt, lower calories for now?? in the group High Carb Cooked Vegan Discussions
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