First off, this is a great place; I'm glad I finally signed up after about a month of lurking. I have a few questions I haven't seen addressed in the "Welcome Wagon" or elsewhere; apologies if you've seen them hundreds of times before. I'm waiting for my turn to read my library's copy of the 80/10/10 book.
1. How exactly does it work that 3000, 4000+ calories result in weight loss? Is it sort of like with water - i.e., once the body gets it that it has enough, it stops storing it? (Or once you're "peeing clear", you won't have to worry about water retention anymore) So once your body gets it that you're always going to have plenty of carbs, it stops storing fat? I'm not asking how it is that carbs aren't stored as fat; I think I understand that. I'm wondering how the fat goes away; my understanding was that the body will hold off on burning fat as long as glucose is freely available.
I'm not doubting that this works; I'm just wondering if someone can give a quick explanation as to how.
2. This is my major struggle: rice. I did solid, 100% 80/10/10 for about a week (I know that's not very long) before I started craving something savory. A few minutes ago, I saw in a thread that greens are good for savory cravings. Has anyone found this to be true? I've seen in DR's videos that no one gets fat on rice, but I'm worried that the weird spice packet I've been using on it - I tried to give up salt; it didn't work - might be throwing off my weight loss efforts, or even making me gain...
I know how this sounds. I guess what I'm asking is to hear from people that successfully kicked the salty rice habit. I do eat quite a bit of greens as well, so I'm wondering what else I can do. Someone mentioned green juices. What are your takes on that?
Thanks for your help. :)
Welcome to 30BaD and the fruity way of life.
1. How exactly does it work that 3000, 4000+ calories result in weight loss?
First of all our guidelines are 2500 calories a day for females and 3000 a day for males. Just to clarify and ensure there are no misunderstandings and misquotings. (FAQS)
If one is extremely busy in life such as a student, job, family, athletic, etc, add more calories as needed.
Why? If people eat less than 2500 calories a day, they tend to have energy deficiencies, and end up cheating to compensate, in return eating more. If one follows their daily intake on cronometer.com, other vitamin and mineral deficiencies may show up too. Even SAD guidelines fall close to 2400 calories a day, so we are not extreme in our recommendations.
Weight? The body will self regulate on a natural diet. Obese people usually melt the pounds away, sometimes 1-2 a day. People who may have had eating disorders and or are under weight might gain weight in the form of proper hydration, fiber in the intestines, more bone density, and stronger muscle mass.
It seems you already understand how how fats and carbs work as well. On SAD diets and high fat diets, one might gain weight on a 900 calorie diet because fats sludge up the blood and lymph system preventing cells from absorbing nutrients resulting in the storage of those things in fat cells, hence weight gain.
2. This is my major struggle: rice.
Well, in case of fruit emergencies, we recommend that people eat steamed and boiled rice with no additives such as oil, salt, and seasonings. But I repeat, emergencies only.
Basmati rice is a good choice. Never use processed packets that come with seasonings, salt, and other chemicals.
We recommend that you just do this diet 100% with no transition or cheating: (Banana Wagon)
The case against transitioning:
If one is doing two or more diets, one is only doing a mix and will not have optimal results. The same conditions, diseases, and cravings will keep coming up again and again and never get resolved.
One cannot ride two horses with one bum:)
Mixing a high fat diet and a high fruit diet can cause problems like Type 2 Diabetes, candida, and chronic fatigue syndrome, and weight gain.
Fruits digest fast. Animal products, fats, digest slowly as well as cruciferous veggies like broccoli and root veggies like carrots in some people.
Eating fruit on top of slow digesting food can cause the fruit to ferment leading to digestive discomfort and or pain, gas, bloating, and other problems like brain fog.
CHEAT DAYS = SICK DAYS!
Cheating with cooked food, and even steamed vegetables for some people, can cause digestive upsets, detox symptoms, and a return of previous conditions.
Of course everyone is different, but what many members who have tried to transition have experienced is that the longer they eat raw, the cleaner their bodies get.
What will happen is that their bodies will react violently when they cheat with cooked food. Symptoms may include upset stomach, vomiting, constipation, headache, acne, and other detox symptoms. The best way to describe it is sudden onset of flu like symptoms which may last 1-3 days.
For more reasons on why we advise not to consume things like spices, salt, teas, coffess, and medications to name a few, you might like this website:
It seems like you are very close to success and good luck!
Thank you for the welcome and the thoughtful reply, PK. I did remember reading in the FAQ's and hearing in DR and Freelee's videos that 2500/3000 was the minimum calorific standard. Yet, I've continually encountered posts detailing 4000, 6000, or even upwards of 8,000 calories per day, leading me to wonder whether it was that these people are simply extremely active or whether there is something intrinsic in carbs that allows one to consume as many of them as one likes and not put on weight (and wouldn't that be lovely). I remember hearing in one of DR's about being able to sit and just eat handfuls of brown rice all day long (not that most would want to) and not get fat. I read something in a thread about carbs being "thermogenic", and I was just wondering if there was anything to that.
I read through the "Banana Wagon" thread on my first trip here, as well as several other useful threads, so I think I have the basics down. My last big struggle was my craving for savory, but I'm going to buy a VitaMix today (I've wanted one for years), which should make it easier to make savory veggie stews I won't have to choke down.
I'm extremely excited about this way of life because it's sustainable, unlike the other so-called "lifestyles" out there. I believe I can live the rest of my life on mostly fruit, some veggies, and the occasional (emergency) spice-free rice bowl. While I've never been overweight by SAD standards, I'm looking forward to getting down to what's comfortable and natural. I understand this will happen gradually - which means it will stick - but I'm happy to wait, since this is more fun than deprivation. I'm delighted to have found out about this. I'd only heard about 'gourmet raw' before, which never made much sense to me.
Thanks again for the help, PK. It's good to be here. :)
I do have a follow-up question, PK.
On SAD diets and high fat diets, one might gain weight on a 900 calorie diet because fats sludge up the blood and lymph system preventing cells from absorbing nutrients resulting in the storage of those things in fat cells, hence weight gain.
I understand this, but what I'm wondering is how the body gets rid of the fat one's already storing. I've read again and again that the body only offloads fat as a last-ditch, desperate effort, and will do everything possible to cling to it in the interim. So how does the fat go? Is it that the vitality inherent in this sleep+water+sugar lifestyle fills people with so much energy that they literally can't not run out the door and off on a 10K every day, hence leading to fat burn? Is it that the body views excess fat the way we do - as toxic - and offloads it as soon as one starts making healthy dietary choices? Or is there something special about carbs themselves that leads the body to go, "Clearly, we aren't in a famine anymore - look at all of this lovely glucose. So why do we need to lug around this fat?"
I'd just like a nuts-bolts explanation for how people slim down on 811 in the long run. Is it the excess energy leading to extra exercise, the detox effect, or exiting famine mode?
Thanks again for your help.
Here is my go-to recipe when I want something savory: Tomatoes and basil wrapped in romaine leaves. Add baby spinach or chopped/grated celery for more saltiness, and date pieces for a more sweet/savory. But always use the tomatoes and basil, it's the best base in my experience.
Also, when you're eating 3000+ calories from fruit and leafy greens, you automatically have so much energy that you can't NOT be crazy active. However, I found that I pushed myself too hard to be active at first even though I was eating thousands of calories and was still tired and sore. This, I believe, is because I came from a very restrictive past and my body needed to heal before jumping into the active part of this lifestyle. So about 2-3 months in that caught up with me and I stopped working out. I maybe hit the gym for strength training 1x/week and got in SOME amount of walking daily (as little as 10mins/day when I was really tired) and did some scattered and very light/basic body weight exercises at home- check out videos on youtube, that's what I did!
I gained a little water weight initially when I first went 811, but it was quickly lost because I ate enough and kept VERY hydrated. I gained no weight during the time when I was inactive, and am only now working back up to my normal exercise routine, so that near-inactivity lasted about 2 months(I am less than a week away from the 5 month mark!!).
I would definitely ditch the rice, especially if you can't eat it plain. I had one emergency day where I ran out of ripe fruit and could not access more, so I turned to potatoes. I couldn't palate them plain so I added organic ketchup. I didn't experience any digestive issues, but I was definitely bloated the next day from the salt in the ketchup. It wasn't terrible aesthetically, but it was a HORRIBLE feeling after not being bloated or at all uncomfortable for months prior.
Hope that helps! Glad you finally made the profile, lots of luck =]
Thanks so much for the recipe suggestion and good advice. :) After years of hemming, hawing, and searching for a bargain, I finally buckled and bought a VitaMix today, which will make all of this much easier. I was able to find a great place for bananas (50 cents per pound, and they're actually ripe), so now I'll be on the lookout for some decent tomatoes. I'm sure I'll plant a garden in the end, but I'll need a little help in the meantime.
Good call on not over-doing it on exercise, I think. I aim to focus on eating lots of ripe fruit and savory veggie meals, give it a few weeks, then take steps to start running again. On the other hand, last week I did go on a random walk to the beach in the middle of the afternoon "because it was just too nice to stay inside", which was a new reality for me given the past six months. So I just might start running sooner than planned. I'll start browsing the exercise thread around here for tips re: good shoes.
Someone said it in another thread, but it's actually easier to keep hydrated on just fruit and veggies. For some reason, adding in spices makes me want water less, even though I need it more. Today, for instance, even though I still had my rice, I ditched the spices; instant decision. Instead, I had it with some bananas. I'm really hoping my veggie stews will kill this craving for something "heartier". The good news is that I know I'll never eat the real junk (dairy, eggs, etc) again. Not so much because I feel confident in my "willpower" (though I have pulled a few interesting stunts along that line), but because I finally, really and truly get it. That stuff is not food, so why consume it?
Anyway. This was extremely helpful, AJ; thank you so much!
Kolin, good call on getting the Vitamix. I bought the BlendTec first when I started the road to health making green smoothies and converting overnight to organic raw vegan. Later I bought my Vitamix and boy! what a difference. I love my Vitamix so much more and it was less expensive. I bought the basic model. Basic is better than fancy! LOL
You are doing wonderful. Keep us posted.
I actually only recently heard of the BlendTec. I've wanted a Vitamix for nearly four years. I did briefly look into the BlendTec, but the only differences I could see were that the blade was "propeller style", which apparently makes it easier to get the last little bit of food from the bottom of the blender, and that the newest BlendTec model (with a larger carafe) is supposed to cause less oxidation. But I figured that feature would preclude making hot soups, which is a big reason the Vitamix appealed to me. In the end, I went with it. It was a big purchase, but I got the same feeling after making it that I did when I bought my laptop: the satisfaction of a good buy.
I'm also glad I thought to google for a promotion code, because I came across a "healthyblenders" site run by a guy named Josh. He offers a free 50-page e-book about getting the most out of a Vitamix in exchange for using his code, and you also get free shipping.
I'm really excited about finally having one. I've got a number of vegetables going off in the fridge because they seemed like too much trouble (red and green chard, beets, etc). I bought them to juice, but it really is a hassle. It's nice to know I'll waste less when my Vitamix gets here. I got one of their refurbished models, because it comes with the recipe book, tamper, etc., and in four years, I've never found a used Vitamix offered for less than $300, and that without any accessories.
Thanks for the support. What I love about this 811 concept is that it really doesn't seem challenging at all. This is something I can do indefinitely.
I'll answer the rice issue. Carbs without salt/fat/seasoning is ok to eat once in a while in a pinch. It is what is used on cooked grains that are the problem.
Yes, doing a 1/2 lb of greens a day in a green smoothie and/or a large salad handles the savory cravings. I know this because I do it. That's 1/2 lb of greens minimum.
Perfect; thanks for the tips. Do you buy your vegetables wholesale? Do you have any favorites?
A 1/2 pound is no problem for me; I ate through two bags of greens yesterday - an arugula mix and mache. Since I'm finally getting a decent blender, I'll be able to have even more.
Giving up fat was easy, but spices have been a little harder. I'm sure I'll manage it, though.
Off I go for my "early night"... at 10:18 pm. We've all got to start somewhere. :)
i always want something savory at the end of the day, i love making zucchini pasta (use a vegetable peeler on zucchini to make noodles" and for a sauce i use tomato, red pepper, maybe avocado if i feel like it, and fresh basil. tastes like a delicious pasta meal, except even better :D i also love banana/spinach smoothies. i think greens def help with salt/savory cravings. also eating tomatoes and celery! juicing is not promoted on 811 because u take out the necessary fiber in the fruits/vegs, but i really do love making home made green juice once in a while. my fav combo is cucumber, celery, spinach, lemon, green apple, and ginger. delish! yes salt will not help with weight gain, causes water retention and it can make u look like u have jiggly fat, when its just your body holding onto water!
Another great recipe; thanks, Jennelle! I've heard of zucchini pasta, but I haven't actually tried it yet. I'm tempted to run out and get one of those spiralizers, but the vegetable peeler is a nice, affordable alternative. I think I'll just get a basil plant, since it looks like I'm going to be using lots of it.
I've also heard a bit about celery being good for salt cravings, which is another reason I'm so excited about finally getting a decent blender: I'll be able to make an actual celery soup (hot, even), without worrying about the little stringy bits ruining things for me.
That green juice sounds delicious. Juicing is actually how I got started in all this. I didn't like the idea of wasting the pulp, so I added a bit of ground flaxseed and dehydrated it into "crackers". But it was such a hassle, I'm not sure how often I'll do it. Still, I think juicing has its place; maybe as an emergency jump-start, after which a person would take up the more sustainable 811 way of eating.
Re: salt, I've pretty much accepted that we're going to have to go our separate ways. This is my second day without it, and it's really not a big deal. Nothing about this is a big deal, once one has the right tools and a bit of helpful information.
Seriously, this is so much fun. Everyone should eat like this. :)
Kolin, I am just ending a 92 day juice feast. It was a choice allowed by my doctor who is monitoring me. He is a naturopath and md and 811rv. He wanted me to do a water fast at a retreat and I couldn't do one at this time. Juicing has it's advantages for a long juice feast if you are in my situation. I had several health issues that are now gone thanks to the digestive rest and extra sleep I started to get. I am a solid 811rv and will be starting my 100 days by the book 811 in less than 2 weeks time.
I would rather have my mentoring students start using their greens for salads and green smoothies first and foremost. Our bodies are added in the initial detox stages by the additional fiber. After they have been on lfrv for awhile and still want or need a serious supervised detox and can't to a water/retreat one, I do hand-hold them for 60 days. It's rather intense.
Green juice is very "cleansing". I love what I call my V6: 1 lb of greens, celery, cucumber, bok choy, carrots, 1 lb of tomatoes. Yummm and I am adding some raw garlic to it also. I won't be doing this in the next leg of my journey of course. Juicing is not 80/10/10.
Celery and tomatoes both have natural sodium in them to handle the salt cravings. Also greens are great to eat. Work up to a lb a day.
Dehydrated foods are also not on this program. I bought a new dehydrator for Christmas and won't be using it except to lend it to my students who are transitioning from SAD to 80/10/10 gradually. Oh well! LOL