30BaD's policy on pro-cooked food talk

You may have noticed a fair bit of pro-cooked food talk on 30BaD lately. There's even been backlash against those who've suggested that discussions on cooked food should not be permitted on this site. All this is understandable given that for those in the northern hemisphere it is winter time, and under these circumstances staying raw may present many challenges. For many of us all this can be seemingly too overwhelming to stay 100% raw during the winter months.

Now it is of course your choice whether you want to be 100% lfrv, high raw, or whatever, but this site's primary intention is to encourage and support those whose goal it is to be 811rv 100%, wherever you live, ideal climate or not. Those who are vegan and/or high raw are of course still welcome here. However it should be made clear that discussions recommending the use of cooked food to other forum members, discussing the health benefits of cooked food, explaining why I CAN'T stay raw, questioning whether cooked veggies are actually bad for us etc. are to be discouraged. These discussions may be closed and/or deleted if deemed inappropriate.

While there are certainly far worse things we can be eating than cooked veggies, it is the conviction of the 30BaD crew and many of the most experienced frugivores here that they are far from optimal compared to our specific foods, raw fruits and vegetables. Nor are cooked foods necessary if we have access to enough ripe fruit. Even frugivores in the coldest winter climates are able to secure abundant supplies of fruits and stay 100% raw throughout the winter. Small quantities of ripe conventionally grown fruit are arguably more optimal for us than cooked veggies; certainly the former will most often taste better.

If you want to eat steamed greens or boiled sweet potatoes, that's your choice. Being vegan is probably the most important dietary choice you can make for ethical and environmental reasons. A high raw low fat vegan diet has tremendous health benefits compared to the alternatives. But virtually EVERYBODY here already knows how to cook food, and there's countless sites and support groups on the web for vegan cooking. So it seems neither necessary or beneficial to those trying to stay raw to discuss the how-to or the benefits of cooking food on this forum. It's something many of us are still trying to unlearn.

Those who are 100% raw for any length of time, as little as a month or less, virtually all agree that even the most seemingly harmless of cooked foods, i.e. steamed veggies, are not harmless to the body of a 100% lfrv frugivore. 811 is ultimately about what is optimal regarding health, particularly with respect to diet. Whether or not there is overwhelming scientific evidence to support the claim that steamed veggies are bad for us, experience and reason suggests that they are not part of an optimal human diet.

It would be understandable and make sense to choose to make dietary compromises in long term situations where there was extremely little or even absolutely no fruit available. Notwithstanding extreme poverty, few of us in the developed world find ourselves in this position too often nowadays. We are not ultimately controlled entirely by our external circumstances: staying 100% raw or eating cooked food is our choice. Either way is not right or wrong, but like all our choices they have consequences. Most of us are aware of the health benefits of staying 811rv so I won't elaborate on them here. We do encourage you to consider doing so if you haven't already, and to stick with it if you are 100% raw but are having doubts. The consequences of wise choices regarding health are health benefits after all.

Those who are AGAINST the idea of being 100% raw vegan or have absolutely no faith that it is optimal for human health would probably do best seeking another forum.

I do understand that doing lfrv 100% in a cold winter climate can be quite challenging at times; it gets as cold here where I currently live (Canada) as it does in northern Scandinavia. So I've decided to start a support group for those in colder climates to go/stay raw, BigG's 811rv Winter Bootcamp. Humans were intended to live in the tropics, particularly during the winter. No frickin' doubt about it! But that doesn't mean that any of us can't do 811 100% virtually wherever we live, until we can relocate ourselves to a more suitable location. I'm sure as heck planning to move to a warmer location as soon as I can, but I'm staying 811rv 100% until that time; I'm not going to wait for ideal circumstances to present themselves. If I decided to wait that long for going 811rv 100% may never have happened.

Whatever (preferably vegan) diet you choose for yourself, and of course we encourage you to choose 811rv 100%, we do welcome you here as long as you abide with the forum guidelines.

Sincerely,
The 30BaD crew: Freelee, Harley, and the mods.

EDIT

The intention of this post is NOT to discourage others from discussing their challenges staying 100% raw; many folks here are still transitioning to 811rv or considering whether this is right for them, and this site is intended for their support and education. It is making discussions centered around the BENEFITS of cooked food, encouraging/showing others how to make cooked recipes, and questioning whether there's any harm if I just have that one boiled sweet potato, etc. You may consider all these to be worthy topics of discussion, and that's fine, but this is really not the place for all that. That's what giveittomeraw.com is for ;)

Accountability is important, and I think it should be encouraged that we be open about our eating habits, though I don't see that it should be mandatory. The dreaded "how long since you last bite of cooked food question" virtually always comes up when someone questions the harm of cooked veggies etc. This is because usually, though not always, those who aren't 100% raw are the ones who bring up these sorts of discussions in the first place. If you fall off the wagon you are of course free to let everyone know, share how lousy eating it made you feel, beg for forgiveness etc. ;)

Cheers,
B

Tags: cooked food, lfrv, winter

2 members like this

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ellen on January 17, 2010 at 11:36pm

Thank you B and others. I appreciate your high standards!

Permalink Reply by Kristina on January 18, 2010 at 12:25am

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Personally, I have no problem staying 100% low fat raw vegan throughout a cold, Norwegian winter, and I believe that mindset has a lot to do with this: If you tell yourself that something is difficult, then it will. I source the best fruit possible in my area and make sure to always have an abundance of ripe fruit in the house. I also make sure to get enough calories, sleep,, exercise. wear warm clothes and supplement with Vitamin D3. I celebrate the benefits a 100% low fat raw vegan lifestyle gives me and I am loving it raw in the winter. ♥

Permalink Reply by bert on January 18, 2010 at 2:30am

Well, you have presented an opinion which may well be correct. But if someone disagrees, should not she or he also be allowed to present her or his opinion?

Permalink Reply by Ryan | on January 18, 2010 at 4:55am

is your goal to be 100% low fat raw vegan (zero cooked food or animal products), jack?

Permalink Reply by bert on January 18, 2010 at 5:21am

I don't if I want to commit with a positive "yes," since I remain not fully convinced with regard to the dangers of occasionally eating steamed vegetables. That said, however, I am convinced as to the benefits of eating 811 and I certainly strive to remain close to its principles.

There is a further issue of relevance to me, though, which is ecological. I currently do not desire to move away from England, and I question how ecologically sound it is for me to eat a great deal of fruit that has been transported from continents such as South America (although I do still eat bananas from there, I have recently switched to Spanish oranges and local apples as my main fruits of choice). So, in the long term, I'm not sure really.

All this said, however, I don't think your question really strikes to the heart of the issue. I don't think its a good idea to eat cooked food regularly, but I don't think that should mean that someone who does so should be discouraged from stating or discussing their dietary habits, assuming that there is still an 811 influence in their outlook. As Voltaire said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

In another post of mine in this thread, I have tried to make the case that complete openness will benefit the community in the long run. As Mill once wrote

"However unwillingly a person who has a strong opinion may admit the possibility that his opinion may be false, he ought to be moved by the consideration that however true it may be, if it is not fully, frequently, and fearlessly discussed, it will be held as a dead dogma, not a living truth." (sic)

I accept, however, that this is just my opinion and that I may well be wrong. Furthermore, and more importantly, it is not my opinion on this subject that is important. Thus, I shall henceforth abide by the guidelines.

Permalink Reply by Carrie-boo on January 18, 2010 at 12:45am

thank you for this,

For me, I must admit that only having been 100% lfrv 811 for a short amount of time and I personally do find it difficult to read about cooked food, as I am still trying to overcome a lifelong addiction to the crap, and reading the 'alternatives and justifications' does put an element of doubt into my already 'addicted' mind.

I do believe that it would aid me immensely, and those who are also trying to overcome the addictions of SAD.

Thanks B.

XX CC

Permalink Reply by Ryan | on January 18, 2010 at 4:59am

yes carrie, this is the main purpose of this "policy".. thanks for your input.. and those addictions will completely fade in due time.. just keep living fruitful :-)

Permalink Reply by Hani on January 18, 2010 at 12:59am

Sorry I couldn't read all of your long post, but I think I got the point. Here is my opinion; people come here to know if low fat raw vegan (LFRV) is the right diet. They want to know if 100% LFRV is the ideal diet and what percentage of fat. Therefore, it is a moral obligation of anyone here, who was on a LFRV and now he can't maintain it. It is his/her moral obligation to state explicitly that he is no longer LFRV and to explain honestly why he can't be LFRV anymore. That doesn't mean that he should keep posting about cooked food. It should be one or two posts maximum. Whither you are in cold or hot climate, you should not be treated differently.
If you promoted 100% LFRV before and you think you can't maintain it, and then hide this fact or you leave this forum without saying anything, then you are being dishonest.
I even go further by suggesting a separate folder for those who quit, to state in one or two posts why they did so.

Permalink Reply by Karmyn on January 18, 2010 at 1:37am

I'm so glad this is the policy!

The cooked food suggestions IMO were getting OUT OF HAND.

It's similar to recovering addicts talking about which recreational drugs are least harmful.

Imagine recovering addicts living in a sober living home and a new person moves in and starts saying, "If you're going to start USING again stick to HEROIN. IT DOESN'T cause nearly as much damage as ALCOHOL!"

Now what would happen to that person? They would be kicked out of the house!

Replace "using" with " eating cooked food", "heroin" with "steamed veggies and roots", "It" with "They", "doesn't" with "don't" and "alcohol" with "grains."

Here I just did it for you:

"If you're going to start EATING COOKED FOOD again stick to STEAMED VEGGIES AND ROOTS. THEY DON'T cause nearly as much damage as GRAINS."

Now I would never put down anyone still in TRANSITION with a goal of adopting 100% lfrv, but the GLORIFICATION of cooked foods on this site is unacceptable IMO.

So I'm quite pleased that there will be a similar policy in our 100% optimal raw diet living "home."

All the best,

Karmyn
http://karmynmalone.com

Permalink Reply by Hani on January 18, 2010 at 2:40am

I agree that there should be no posts about recipes of cooked food. But, everyone should state somewhere in their posts or profile if they are eating cooked food - what kind and what percentage.
If someone is advocating relying on apples for calories, I need to know if they can sustain being raw on this kind of fruit.
The irony is that many of the people here who suppress any criticism of DR and of LFRV are not close to being 100% raw. They do so just to proof their loyalty and to feel being accepted in the pack.
Everyone should be clear about his/her diet. I'll start with myself: For two years I've been 100% raw for 97% of my meals. That means only 2 meals of steamed vegetables per month. I do that just to suppress any further thoughts about going back to cooked food

Permalink Reply by bert on January 18, 2010 at 2:41am

Karmyn: on a logical level, your analogy is fine. Empirically, however, it is dubious.

I agree that cooked food is suboptimal for human consumption when compared with a low fat raw vegan diet based mainly around sweet fruit.

I disagree that eating cooked food (especially when considering that this blanket term includes a

Permalink Reply by Karmyn on January 18, 2010 at 2:48am

Hi Jack,

For some reason only part of your post is shown. Once you fix it I will more than happy to respond!